Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[catdaddyfro]

I found one, interesting, I wonder if anyone has any pics of some Blacks too?

This is going back in time for sure, compared to what breeds are normally posted up on this thread.

Jeff

 

[MagicChicken]

Good luck, Bob. My impression is that javas like a lot of room. After I ordered my Black Java chicks from Duane Urch I found a guy in my area who is also raising them. Went to visit. He has several large pens set up - maybe 80' x 100' fenced areas with half a dozen birds per pen - and the birds spent the entire time at the farthest point in the pen from wherever we were standing. They didn't fly out. Mostly just kept their distance. I am hoping I can train mine to come when I call (scratch is handy for that) but otherwise keep a respectful distance.

My main vigor concern is that these chicks come from a line that was raised in Minnesota for umpteen years. Now they're in the desert. Gonna be some who adapt better than others, and those are the ones I want to keep.

Keep us posted. I'm particularly interested in how those javas behave in your breeding pen setup. It will help me figure out how to build mine.

Sarah

 

[MagicChicken]

I found one, interesting, I wonder if anyone has any pics of some Blacks too?

This is going back in time for sure, compared to what breeds are normally posted up on this thread.

Jeff

The best pics of Black Javas are the illustrations in the SOP. There are a number of pics on the Java Breeders of America site, but they are not always illustrative of good type. Not sure if it is how the birds are standing in the pics, but several of those online photos show birds whose backs slope up toward the tail. It should be the other way - a slight decline from neck to tail with a concave sweep near the tail. Think a slightly deeper/more squared off Rhode Island Red "brick" body shape tilted on a slant with the front end slightly higher than the back end. Tails are carried higher than a RIR, too: 55 degrees for the males, 45 degrees for the females.

A lot of the Black Java photos you see show birds with reddish eyes. Black Javas should have dark eyes. I think the reddish eye in a Black Java indicates that it is split for Mottled. I do know that in Black Javas the eye color contributes a lot toward what birders call the "jizz" of the bird - the total package of physical and behavioural traits and general "presence" that characterize the bird and make it recognizable in a briefly-observed instant. There is something unique about that dark, round eye contrasting with the smooth, bright red face that is characteristic of the SOP javas. And it does exist in real life - the first Black Javas I ever saw were darned good type (which I didn't know at the time) and also had that friendly expression. It took me two hours of staring at those birds to figure out it was the faces that really drew me. I see a lot of pics that don't have that same look. People don't seem to be paying enough attention to the body shape, let alone the SOP face and eye details. They're more interested in developing new color variants. So it goes.

Disclaimer: I'm new to heritage chickens. I've been paying a lot of attention to Javas for the last several months. Most of the information above is my interpretation of some of the SOP characteristics. I was lucky that the first Black Javas I met were good type, and the trio I really liked took Reserve Champion American Class in that show.

These are some of the Black Java chicks from Duane Urch, shortly after they arrived:



Sorry, no adult photos yet. Maybe in a few months!

Sarah

 

[fowlman01]

Sarah,

Everyone wants to make a new color in most breeds. While I understand the interest with newbies, it does nothing to improve the breed. I would have to say it runs the breed into the ground, as all these hybrids get put back into the good stuff. I have seen this for many years, but the new folks in poultry now are the absolute worst I have seen. As an example folks are trying out new colors in Tolbunt Polish and they don't know that "Tolbunt" is actually the color designation of these Polish.....they are not a breed. lol. They are also trying to change the German Standard cuz to quote one "expert" the Germans were wrong, but I know precisely .....got to love that word.......what they are supposed to look like. This is from a person that has been in poultry for a couple years at most. I get so frustrated with myself for not having this ability some BYC people have of learning things so quickly.

If it didn't cause so much damage to so many breeds it would be funny.

Walt

 

[hallerlake]

Sarah,

Everyone wants to make a new color in most breeds. While I understand the interest with newbies, it does nothing to improve the breed. I would have to say it runs the breed into the ground, as all these hybrids get put back into the good stuff. I have seen this for many years, but the new folks in poultry now are the absolute worst I have seen. As an example folks are trying out new colors in Tolbunt Polish and they don't know that "Tolbunt" is actually the color designation of these Polish.....they are not a breed. lol. They are also trying to change the German Standard cuz to quote one "expert" the Germans were wrong, but I know precisely .....got to love that word.......what they are supposed to look like. This is from a person that has been in poultry for a couple years at most. I get so frustrated with myself for not having this ability some BYC people have of learning things so quickly.

If it didn't cause so much damage to so many breeds it would be funny.

Walt

Some of us just want the colors they have in the EU but not here.

 

[fowlman01]

Some of us just want the colors they have in the EU but not here.

Not a problem until they sell them to everyone and their dog......which you know they do. When they stop looking like Polish....what is the point?

w.

 

[MagicChicken]

Walt,

My goal is to keep Mr. Urch's line going without introducing new strains. I plan to share these birds with other breeders in the area. Looking forward to doing my part to keep at least one old breed going. It's an adventure!

Sarah

 

[fowlman01]

There is a lot of interest in Java's now. That is a good thing. The Java's are one of the oldest American breeds. Great to hear!

w.

 

[hallerlake]

Quote: That's the case with any careless breeder regardless of their objectives or lack thereof. Anyone not breeding toward the standard is going to end up with some funny looking chickens.

My breeds are Appenzeller Spitzhauben and Brabanters. Both are available in only two colors in The USA. (Greenfire Farm has recently brought in several colors of Spitz, but they're not widely available yet). There is no APA standard for either currently, but the breeders I know trying to develop the other colors available in the EU are doing their best to breed toward the standards of the home countries.

I think a Tolbunt Appenzeller Spitz or Brabanter would be cool so long as everything else is according to standard. There are a number of colors that no longer exist even in the EU I'd love to see brought back.

Your comment struck me as ironic because poorly bred Spitz and Brabanters look like Polish.

 

[thedragonlady]

Whatever you want to argue about.....you are like a terrier sometimes.

As noted....it is not a great rosecomb....it may have some rudimentary points because he crossed his existing buff Wyandottes to a buff Orp. It is one picture of one bird......

I have no idea why you didn't jump on the Orp part of this. Automatically you assumed Rock. The Orp also gave it a good dose of loose feathering in the females, but he will have that gone in the next cross. The type is very good and the legs are the correct color....it looks like a good Wyandotte that has the normal problems associated with a rose comb.

So now to end the debate..........a picture is worth a 1000 words. This is not a single comb!



geeeez............maybe you are only partially blind.



Walt

Nope, and I'm not the only one who saw points. I saw the rounded blade too. Should have known you were up to mischief! I bred very nice SLWs from Herb Holtz, and I never had one shaped like that. Where is the 40 dgree tail ? All I see is a flat top like a Rock. No cocave sweep up to the tail.