Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[fowlman01]

Pastor Romig said same thing..hes running all of the time.he said he thought at this point things were supposed to slow down for him..but hes busier than ever..and he doesnt know how to turn a computer on...I said...Oh your better off not going on there..people can get mean..they say things that they would never say to your face...he asked me to come down and take some pics to email for him..I told him any time....he had some people that were very pleased with him and his judging of a bantam show somewhere, so they gifted him some japanese bantam show birds..he graciously took the birds but called me and said , Lynne, I just have project of my own going on and I cant keep these fantastic birds...he offered to bring them up...I said , Pastor, Im in same boat..Im kind of streached ..and want to keep a healthy space per bird and right now things are good...felt bad, I had to turn them down....he came up to give me some advise..cant thank him enough..man he knows chickens..every square inch, can spot flaws and good things a mile away...he doesnt candy coat things either..nicest man to help like that..bought him breakfast..wish we had a hundred more like him and you and Vickie and bob and the other great people in heritage thread..

He has been doing this for a long time.

w.

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

I think if they and the Black Plymouth Rocks where admitted to the standard in 20 years they would be just as rare as todays Silver Penciled and Partridge. It just cost to much to build up a strain I mean time and money and they can not compete with the Whites at the shows. It would have to be a personnel project.

There are so many breeds needing help with out trying to get new colors or breeds into the standard.

I often think most of the request I get for very rare breeds is mainly from the painted pictures that people see in the Standards or the Catalogs.

They look so pretty they tell me but there are none available from good breeders. The hatcheries sell want a be birds but that's about as far as I can see many breeds that are so rare today.

I look back through my posts on here from the last few years and note an interesting evolution in my thinking. Certainly at first I was enamoured and fascinated by the idea of working on new and interesting breeds and colors. Perhaps some manner of practicality has kicked in as my dabbling in this and that resulted again and again in disappointing results and I began to realize just what a ridiculous undertaking it was. Also, the researchaholic part of my nature steered me towards the old breeds with deep and sordid histories and I fell in love with the idea of restoring these breeds to former. Now I'm somewhere in between. I just want to find a breed that "works" for me that I can work on and dedicate myself too. Through all of my voracious reading in this forum, and poring over every scrap of knowledge I could glean from the likes of Walt and Robert Blosl and company, I realize that that is really all it boils down to. You're not out there every day shoveling crap for an idea or a project, they're birds. Real, living, eating, drinking, pooping, crowing birds. And if you don't like them and you're not having fun with them day in and day out, even through those disappointing hatching seasons when you don't make any real progress toward your goals, then you're not going to stick with it.

So thanks, guys. For all of your practical advice, and for sometimes being naysayers and knocking some sense into me, and dashing countless dreams of creating some green-laced, purple egg-laying, booted, bearded, dual purpose tophat that comes in fifteen varieties. Forgive my occasional objections, your presence here is very much appreciated.

 

[gjensen]

Pastor Romig said same thing..hes running all of the time.he said he thought at this point things were supposed to slow down for him..but hes busier than ever..and he doesnt know how to turn a computer on...I said...Oh your better off not going on there..people can get mean..they say things that they would never say to your face...he asked me to come down and take some pics to email for him..I told him any time....he had some people that were very pleased with him and his judging of a bantam show somewhere, so they gifted him some japanese bantam show birds..he graciously took the birds but called me and said , Lynne, I just have project of my own going on and I cant keep these fantastic birds...he offered to bring them up...I said , Pastor, Im in same boat..Im kind of streached ..and want to keep a healthy space per bird and right now things are good...felt bad, I had to turn them down....he came up to give me some advise..cant thank him enough..man he knows chickens..every square inch, can spot flaws and good things a mile away...he doesnt candy coat things either..nicest man to help like that..bought him breakfast..wish we had a hundred more like him and you and Vickie and bob and the other great people in heritage thread..

Thank you for the picture. It is good to put a face with the name. I spoke with this man a half dozen times, and I gained something each time. It is as simple as shutting up and listening. I have a hard time being quiet, but when I am, I am better for it. Perspective is a lot. There is many hidden gems between the lines.
This man also helped me get a start with Catalanas.He did not have to. He chose to.

 

[cbnovick]

I look back through my posts on here from the last few years and note an interesting evolution in my thinking. Certainly at first I was enamoured and fascinated by the idea of working on new and interesting breeds and colors. Perhaps some manner of practicality has kicked in as my dabbling in this and that resulted again and again in disappointing results and I began to realize just what a ridiculous undertaking it was. Also, the researchaholic part of my nature steered me towards the old breeds with deep and sordid histories and I fell in love with the idea of restoring these breeds to former. Now I'm somewhere in between. I just want to find a breed that "works" for me that I can work on and dedicate myself too. Through all of my voracious reading in this forum, and poring over every scrap of knowledge I could glean from the likes of Walt and Robert Blosl and company, I realize that that is really all it boils down to. You're not out there every day shoveling crap for an idea or a project, they're birds. Real, living, eating, drinking, pooping, crowing birds. And if you don't like them and you're not having fun with them day in and day out, even through those disappointing hatching seasons when you don't make any real progress toward your goals, then you're not going to stick with it.

So thanks, guys. For all of your practical advice, and for sometimes being naysayers and knocking some sense into me, and dashing countless dreams of creating some green-laced, purple egg-laying, booted, bearded, dual purpose tophat that comes in fifteen varieties. Forgive my occasional objections, your presence here is very much appreciated.

Well I suppose I will continue down the line on the 'love fest' train....

A BIG THANK YOU to all the veteran and IMHO many distinguished breeders on this thread offering their time, knowledge and wisdom on all things standard bred poultry.

 

[Pozees]

Well I suppose I will continue down the line on the 'love fest' train....

A BIG THANK YOU to all the veteran and IMHO many distinguished breeders on this thread offering their time, knowledge and wisdom on all things standard bred poultry.

X2

I so appreciate the wisdom and experience you are all willing to share. In my past chicken life, I just had chickens I thought were pretty or laid well, I didn't really have any other purpose, and that was fine then, but now I find I am far more focused on keeping and breeding to the SOP, willing to relinquish birds if I don't have a purpose for keeping them, keeping it simple and down the middle of the road, and paying attention to details I never even thought about 10 years ago. That is largely, or entirely, due to the many hours of advice all of you have generously offered. I expect I will continue to make mistakes and ask stupid questions, but all of life is learning.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

If one goes through the Standard, several breeds have multiple varieties, but if one really reads through the lines of history and attends current shows and hangs around with breeders and judges, one starts to get a feel for the reality: in breeds that still maintain high quality, for sadly there are many that do not, those breeds maintain high quality in one to three varieties--tops. The only breed I know that has some nice quality birds in four varieties is Cochins, but there's a lot of history backing that up--and who knows how long it will last.

I think we often want to be unique. I certainly do. Still there's a great pleasure that can be derived from being part of something which involves collaboration. Most breeds have specific varieties that really are the backbone of the breed. One could also say that most color/traits have a breed or, at times, breeds that really "own" that color or trait. I think the best way to go around figuring out what to do, is to figure out the one or two things that really make one tick, be it a specific breed and its story, or the look of a specific pattern or trait, and then go after that.

Just because something's already in the Standard doesn't mean that it exists in quality form. Bringing just one standardized breed that has been neglected up to form is a huge gift to the fancy. Moreover, if they do happen to exist in quality form, the reality is that gene pools in practically everything are too limited and by adopting, say, high quality Barred Rocks or NH's, which at first consideration don't seem rare in the way that Crevecoeurs and Lakenvelders do, still by becoming a die-hard breeder of one of these, because they are what captures your imagination, you become a critical part in diversifying the bloodline.

I think it requires being really quite level headed even with a head full of dreams. Take the Marans for example (and yes I know this is dangerous territory but....), they have been standardized in Black Copper and Wheatens--AWESOME! But that's enough. These are unique; these offer something new and different to the fancy. They are the only large "dual-purpose" bird in these varieties. They fill a niche for two beautiful patterns. If Marans people focus here, they'll just get better and better. Cuckoo Marans? Yes, I understand the history, but Dominques "own" cuckoo and they have a unique conformation for a dual-purpose breed. Marans don't; they're pretty hum-drum conformation-wise. Still, they lay those lovely eggs, and now they are featured in these two varieties that transform an otherwise Plain Jane conformation into a conversation piece. Other cuckoo varieties in different breeds never caught on, consider the "barred" Cochins and Hollands--no quality, no interest. Cochins of quality are either Buff, Black, White or Partridge, and Barred Hollands didn't nick with the community because they simply look like sloppy Barred Rocks, as do Cuckoo Marans. There might be heat around Marans currently, and one might muster interest around them sufficient to get a fair number of varieties into the Standard. Nevertheless, the dark egg craze will slow, as all crazes do, and the only two claims to fame that Marans have are the two varieties already in the Standard. Instead of wasting one's poultry career chasing ephemeral varieties, why not take these two niche varieties and make them truly outstanding? The community could galvanize around the Black Coppers and Wheatens and make them into something that will last for untold decades. Dark eggs aren't enough. How long have Barnevelders and Welsummers been in the Standard?

The Standard is full of amazing possibilities, and chances are what you need is already there. I think we often make quite a bit out of the choosing of one's breed. We think about it and think about it, and then we rethink it. I honestly believe, though, the romance really begins once you just commit, get some birds and start doing the breeding and studying. If you've narrowed it down to four or five but you can only do one or two (which is a lot), put the names in the hat and pick out two; then burn the other slips of paper, and don't look back. If you draw a name and realize suddenly that you wish it had been the other one, well, now you have your answer. The romance is in the breeding--the breeding and the knowing. Given the current state of affairs, chances are, whatever you picked is going to keep you busy for this life-time.

 

[ocap]

Dear Yellow Horse Farm or whoever wants to answer,
The slips of paper that I am picking from are Orpington , Wyandotte, Jersey Giant, Brahma,,,,,which varieties are the top two or three?
I like the Mills Fleur variety, which breed is the most popular?

 

[aveca]

Thank you for the picture. It is good to put a face with the name. I spoke with this man a half dozen times, and I gained something each time. It is as simple as shutting up and listening. I have a hard time being quiet, but when I am, I am better for it. Perspective is a lot. There is many hidden gems between the lines.
This man also helped me get a start with Catalanas.He did not have to. He chose to.

Hes one of the best people I know, runs the baptist church downtown and seasoned poultry person...very giving and caring..not suprised at all that he helped you out with the catalanas..

His name is Roland Romig..pastor of the church and a good Christian..he writes the sunshine corner in poultry press..and created a duck called the romig blue...he is a true hidden gem.. He was dying to see the Vickie Buffs and German whites..so came up to give me advise..cant thank him enough..hes going to help me along the way..he loves to talk poultry and your right,,sometimes just listening helps..

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Dear Yellow Horse Farm or whoever wants to answer,
The slips of paper that I am picking from are Orpington , Wyandotte, Jersey Giant, Brahma,,,,,which varieties are the top two or three?
I like the Mills Fleur variety, which breed is the most popular?

You could say something great about every variety of every breed, and you could be passionate about each one.

But, trying to be as objective as possible:

Orpington:

Buff = most popular/common/in the best shape currently
Black = original

Wyandotte:

White = most popular/common/in the best shape currently
Silver Laced = original/ a close second
Columbian= not too distant a third

Jersey Giants:

Black = original and, perhaps, the most imposing


Brahma:

Light and Dark: equally original--the "light" pattern is the Columbian gene added to the Pencilled gene so maybe the latter proceeded the former?(??????) Historically the former was the more popular farm fowl though hey both always had a following.


Mille Fleur: D'Uccle.

Some of the above are pretty clear cut, some are more nebulous--and this sort of opens the doorway for friendly opinions and bantering. Still, if everyone who wanted to work with the Silver penciled pattern adopted Dark Brahmas and then cooperated there would be a much larger gene pool of this pattern on a compatible type and the potential for developing amazing birds would increase greatly, in a way, because the pattern itself would reduce in importance and the breeders could begin to focus on the structural concerns and feather quality that make the birds so irresistible when seen in high quality. It's not just about the pattern; it's about the pattern on an amazing type. The more folks are working on a specific type within a specific variety, the great the potential for outstanding chicks to hatch, be recognized, and selected.

For example, we've started distributing White Dorkings. Last year, one customer in particular bought +/-50. This year I have two more customers buying 50 each. The first is in Michigan, the second NC, the third TX. All of them are going hard-core into White Dorking breeding. Now we raise a lot of whites, but with these folks starting up, hundreds of White Dorkings being hatched risks becoming a thousand or more. If we can get a few 50+ customers a year with singular dedication, one risks seeing thousands of White Dorkings hatched a year. Pipe dream? Perhaps. Still, if something of this nature progresses, in ten years White Dorkings could be the best they've been in 100 years.

 

[Robert Blosl]

Quote: I have thought about this today and got a personnel message from a rookie beginner newbie about Why Not make a new color for a breed.

Heck this person cant even run a incubator. They have bought chicks from the feed store for two or three years and want to go big time Master Breeder and start a new color.

It would take at least ten to twenty years and most people will give up the passion in a heart beat. Its just normal . How many people would take say a Rhode Island Red large fowl and cross it onto a Rhode Island Red bantam to shrink down that large fowl strain? How many years and how many chicks would you have to hatch to get say in 15 years a bantam that had large fowl brick shape and color like a large fowl and have level wings breeding out the Old English traits that where used to make them in the 1930s?

Has it ever been DONE?

In my view there is a army of people who are working to get there favorite breed into a bantam standard and that's the Seroma folks. I am the first person to hold one of these chickens in Lincoln Nebraska 13 years ago this fall at a post office as I picked them up in my rental car for Jerry S. from La.

They where Hodge Pog colors but nice type. He said some day we will have blacks, whites, buffs and maybe even Frizzles. I looked at my wife and smiled. What EVER?

Well I was wrong. I saw a nice Buff Seroma one time and a very nice white Frizzle. I don't know how they did it but my hat is off to them and their hard work.

I have seen the hard work of the Buck Eye people. They took a old breed and made it popular and it can win in the shows.

Blue or black rocks Maybe in 50 years.

What about helping out the Buff Orpington Breed. The Buff Wyandotte Breed. The Dark Brahma breed. The Minorca breed in Rose Combs.

What about the Capines. How about everybody rolling up their sleeves and help bring back the Gray Dorking. They are stuck right now.

There is a movement for Mottle Javas. I am part of that with a old strain found out in the woods in Alabama we all thought was gone.

Old breeds that are worth FIXEN are in need of help. Every time they get a new color pattern into the standard in 20 years most of the time the color pattern is no longer popular and about gone. It was a ego for the people or person to say I got this color pattern into the standard. There was a old guy in Arkansas I think named Joe Jefferson he is gone now but he made White Faced Black Spanish bantams. At one time they where not to bad. Today they are hatchery quality that I have seen. He did it, he got a group of say seven people to entry the birds at a qualifying meet and got the birds into the standard.

This was done in the 1930s with Rose Comb Red Bantams today there are few of them Heck there are few of the Large Fowl Rose Comb Reds.

We need to set a goal and say I will take on this color pattern for five years and maybe have a partner and we will try to build up this old breed with out crossing some other breed in.

It is like this in gardening. I am a rookie. I have made some major mistakes this year. I am trying to see what I do best with in my climate and then next year I will see improvement.

I will one day have a garden like my dad use to grow as a kid but it is going to take time to learn how to do it.

Same in chickens. I like your attitude. Up in Alaska do you have Colombian Plymouth Rocks from Scott in Georgia.?

Well I guess I will go out with my new digital scale and weigh some of my Rhode Island Red bantams with their non Red Rock top lines.

21 years with these little guys. Boy what a change they have made in the past five years.