Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[Laingcroft]

Some people can do quite well with a number of breeds. I am not one of them. I am pushing it with two, and would do better with one. I told everyone that I was going back to one breed, and then picked up a project breed that is going to take a lot of effort, time, and money. Silly me. ...

I like this hobby. I have enjoyed this a lot, and that is all I want to do. Enjoy the birds. I will let someone else save the world. It is all I can do to get my birds just a little better than they were last year and learn a little along the way.

Exacty! Chicken keeping is far too much work if you're not going to enjoy it while you do it. Whether you're in love with one breed or many, you should do what you need to do. Keeping a few extra hens (few being anywhere from 3 to 30 --- it's all relative ) of the other breeds a person likes is just fine - if that's what (s)he really wants to have - even if that person can only manage to work on i.e. improve, one or two breeds.

 

[AletaG]

Delight,
I've spoken with the WA State vet for the area and the coordinator... They will NOT come if there are less than 30 birds and they hem and haw when I push for how else I can get NPIP certified. I mean, to ME, it makes sense that 100% clean is 100% clean, but they are choosing how they want to implement the program. I'm sure it's a cost saving measure, heaven knows Olympia is eyeballs in debt, but it will bite the entire industry in the behind thisaway. <eye roll> If it weren't for my parents living here, I'd wash my hands, feet and disinfect everything I own and get off this <insert political irritation rant here> Coast.
I even offered to get the testing done myself, at my own expense, but apparently have to inspect the premesis regularly, so it's not cost-effective to come out for less than 30 animals. Hey, here's a thought, pay a vet to visit. Or make me send in a video and a sworn affadavit with full penalty of perjury and what not and let me do it my own self. Sorry. Been riding this particular merry-go round for months now.

 

[Laingcroft]

Laingcroft, one certainly can. One can, indeed, do many things, but paths end in destinations. There is an infrastructural recipe that leads to powerful success when one's intention is to breed (not simply reproduce) but breed, seeing definite yearly improvement in specific areas. Certainly, as long as it does not detract from the truth of your infrastructural needs, having a grab bag laying flock "just for pretty" won't overly interfere with breeding goals, although it does add to expense and work load. I know one excellent breeder that does, indeed, keep a flock of pretty whatevers just to see on occasion.

Our pretties have always been hard working girls,not merely a collection though I do admit I like to "collect" a variety for the layer flock. Even it has evolved to predominantly Swedish Flower Hens (their color variety and small crests keep me happy with one breed) and EE/OE hens. Before we started breeding with a purpose, we sold (and still do) eggs at farmers markets along with produce. It's the layer flock that helps offset the costs of feed for all. I'm certainly not going to sell breeder eggs to my "eating egg" customers!

However, it also depends on the goals. Bob refers to chicken collectors. The work of chicken collecting is of very little consequence for the good of the fowl collected. It is a dead end. In his work "Creative Poultry Breeding", Dr. Carefoot rights, " The future of quality stock is to breed aggressively with the intention of improvement. If every breed has but a handful of breeders competing fiercely, quality would most certainly improve dramatically. Consequently the urge to collect breeds of poultry, as some collect postage stamps, does little to improve the breeds kept. In the opinion of the author the fancier wishing to keep rare breeds alive would be more effective if he concentrated mainly on one or two breeds, hatched and reared plenty..." (190). No one is arguing that one can't keep a trio of 8 different breeds, but it will lead to very little. It will advance not the birds nor the keeper. Years later one will generally know what one knew at the beginning. One might be better skilled at dealing with mites and lice and other environmental hazards that will visit a yard regardless of the number of breeds kept, but one will have little to no extensive experiential knowledge of breeding for meat or for eggs, for form or for color. One will know nothing of all of the variables that go into breeding and know even less about the variables that come out of breeding. One will have practically zero idea of what is possible with concentration and steadfast discipline.

One learns to understand other poultry by understanding one's own. The knowledge of one or two breeds, ever deepening through unwavering commitment, will give you the skill set needed to understand the other breeds you see at the show. The actual hands-on knowledge of breeding for productivity will lead you to see the structural strengths and faults of every breed you encounter. The studying of specific standards and the long-term application of those standards in a permanent breeding program will guide you in grasping the effects of other standards on their respective breeds.

On can keep a few of this and a few of that, but one will move in a circle like the dog chasing the tail. After a long walk one will arrive back at the beginning. Then one will be frustrated or bored and move on to something new. This is a scenario some on here have seen time and again. Every year I meet people who are going to change the chicken world. They tell me what they're going to do. They're all excited. They're clueless. I try to gently suggest this or that, but "oh, no" they have it all figured out, and I never see them again. On the other hand, if one begins with the proper gear and provisions, if one follows the map and does not deviate from the course, if one does not continue to change path every so often because on an underdeveloped ability to control attention span, if one isn't tempted left and right by the next new thing that sparkles, if one submits to the authority of a mentor, if one associates with like minded peers, if one accepts the difficult with the leisurely, one can arrive at a great vantage point and appreciate the wealth of knowledge and experience that comes with that. This experience is in many ways what the "Heritage Poultry" thread, and the "Old and Rare" thread, and the "Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry" thread is about. One does not restore and advance the science and art of heritage poultry by collecting chickens; rather, the transformation is first in the keeper who, by conforming to the way of the masters who have gone before and by becoming a true breeder of standard-bred poultry, brings breeds toward perfection one or two at a time, renewing the art for a new generation.

Absolutely. I've been raising chickens for a dozen years now but only began breeding with purpose in late 2011 - so I still have much to learn. I'm not interested in showing per se (to the extent of becoming a "name" or traveling a show circuit) but only on the occasions when I need an objective look at the flock. I've also been around the block enough to know that while there may be a destination in mind, breeding quality, like gardening, is a never ending process. There is always room for improvement. Hopefully in the time I have left on this Earth I can make some progress, even if it is only a little bit.

BTW -- I love your Dorkings! I've already signed on to the 2014 waiting list!

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Well, you'll enjoy them. They'll put more than a few eggs in your basket.

 

[3riverschick]

Quote: So why not get bantams? They take exactly 1/2 the space as the large fowl . I think there is a RIR bantam.
There are bantams in other popular breeds like Marans, etc. Bantams don't have to be hot house birds.
They can be hardy too. There are at least 3 top show lines of Bantam Speckled Sussex. Gary Overton; Mongold; and Skytop.
Best,
Karen

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Jackie Koedatich's Speckled Sussex bantams are rudely well developed.

 

[Laingcroft]

The NPIP plan is USDA Federal, but the testing systems are set up by the States. Here in VA it is all the birds you have up to 50, then 10% for larger flocks, tests performed annually. Only birds over 4 months old are tested (chickens, turkey, ducks, quail, guineas) Washington is apparently different -- here is the link to the Washington State requirements page if you haven't already accessed it. http://agr.wa.gov/foodanimal/avianhealth/aviannpip.aspx

For AI test, we have to submit 30 eggs or have someone from State Vet's office come out and swab 30 birds every six months.

If you want to ship to all 50 states, you need NPIP and preferably AI as well. Virginia used to require MG clean status to import birds, but removed it last year. We are one of the tougher states for imports. If you want to bring your birds to shows, they must be tested before entry unless you are NPIP clean as a flock.

The downside is you cannot acquire birds that are not also NPIP clean once your flock is certified.


As for Icelandics, we have Swedish Flower Hens and I LOVE them. They are colorful, come in crested and non-crested varieties, are very predator savvy, great at foraging far and wide, yet come running when their people are out. In fact they can be quite annoying about getting underfoot to see what you are up to. Mine hear the car coming and meet me in the driveway; they've taught all the others to follow along. They are ideal for the person who just wants interesting friendly chickens, but if you want to breed to a standard and a set type --- forget it. It would take far too many years.

 

[3riverschick]

Quote: Yes they are YHF !! If someone had limited room and wanted stunning birds built on a red foundation, well, Hey!
There ya go! If one is not familiar with Master Breeder and APA poultry Judge Jackie's Skytop birds, drool over her website: http://skytopbantams.com/
Jackie also has bantams Buff Brahmas and Bantam New Hampshires. All three are Heritage breeds. Look at the breed type on the Speckled Sussex
bantam named "Party". Just stunning.
Best,
Karen

 

[3riverschick]

Hey Bob B.
Remember what you said a while back about looking at the birds one day and wondering what you had...
then the next week looking at them and wow!
Well that happened here today! I went out to check the chickens after dark, had them in the coop and turned on the light. My coop is raised so I was looking at them at waist level. There are 2 cockerels in this grow out flock. The one I am watching, then the other crossed the coop in front of me....Zowie! Where did this bird come from?!? He is bigger ,so must be from the April 15th hatch. Oh my, is he lovely! A even better version of his sire, Junior. Long, level back (drool), Lovely , medium size tail with great angle set. Superior breast development. That stunning, long, long, "ship in a bottle" Sussex type. This boy will never be mistaken for anything but a Sussex! The hackle is lovely. Nice bold black stripes completely surrounded by crisp clean white lacing. His body is situated just perfectly on his legs which are straight and strong. His snow white saddle is a thing of beauty. This was a 1/2 bro to 1/2 sis breeding thru a common sire (3x Grand Ch. stud cock "Senior")
Happy Camper,
Karen

 

[Lacy Blues]

Wow! I was 28 pages behind on this thread. Finally am all caught up and here it is 1:am! Sheesh!

Getting up in the morning is going to be difficult.