Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[WallTenters]

adubsroit - I think I talked to your BF at the show - I can't remember his name, but very light blonde hair, right? He was very nice and gave me some good tips on how to better prepare our Doms for show next time. Tell him thank you again from me!

And your BF also talked to me about how your bird shouldn't have taken BB because of the color, basically the same things you mentioned in your post.

Well, perhaps it was the judge's way of trying to encourage a buff breeder? If you get enough buffs at the shows and enough breeders with them you can get the color recognized. I'm not normally a huge fan of buff, but I really liked your guy - very sweet. Plus, he kept picking up food and dropping it for my hens - they thought he was pretty sweet, but just wished he had a rose comb and bars

 

[PepsNick]

I must thank the folks who have replied to this thread with so much knowledge. Any breeder should always have every page from this thread on hand. Really amazing. I have my email open while reading through this and every 2 minutes or so I email myself with more amazing information. Thank you so much to those who have their time and excellent knowledge to do this.

 

[Pathfinders]

Quote:
Lots of folks in OH have Buckeyes. As well as those of us in KY, and a lot of other states!

It's getting late in the year to have chicks shipped, I've actually turned my incubator off and am shipping the last four batches of chicks today. Where in NY are you?

And you should check out the Buckeye breed thread here in BYC as well: https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=6374647#p6374647

 

[PepsNick]

I don't mean to change the subject, but I have a question on crossing some breeds with other similar breeds to try to improve the stock. Such as with the Silver Penciled Plymouth Rocks, I read that they could be crossed back to a Dark Brahma to improve size. I have read that a Delaware be crossed back to a nice yellow-legged NH to get the yellow legs.

My question is wouldn't this affect genes in the long run? It might help one thing, but mixing genes from different breeds/lines can cause damage to other traits, can't it (well, I know that it can with lines)? This may not be the case if the breed being crossed back to is a breed that was originally made to create the breed, I don't know?

As an example, crossing a Delaware to a Columbian Rock (done by hatcheries) in the mid 1900's still affects Columbian hackles on Delawares today with heritage/breeder stock. I have had two with this problem from a January 2011 hatch, and the sire and dam don't have the problem shown. But because of their offspring, they certainly have the Columbian genes. Couldn't that happen in other cases?

Thank you,

Nick

 

[fowlman01]

Quote:
You pretty much answered your own question. Yes, it will affect succeeding generations when you cross breeds.....and you might not see it in the first generation. Chickens can be carrying all kinds of things that you can't see and this is why breeding chickens is so difficult. With most other animals you can see the influence of the crossing, but you can't always see it in chickens. A chicken can be a first generation cross to another breed and look exactly like a pure bred chicken. If it is further down the generation path, it may still look pure bred, but somewhere along the line the birds from these matings will throw traits that are not from the breed you think you have. Even well fixed breeds/colors have throwback because all chickens were 'made" by crossing breeds many years ago.

There are people who are somewhat successful crossing breeds to achieve some particular trait, but personally I never do it. There are ways to get to the same place without crossing breeds, but it may take a bit longer to accomplish. In the long run it is worth it in my opinion. If you cross breeds don't sell the offspring without telling the person what you have done so that they know what they are dealing with and why the strange babies are appearing.

Walt

 

[PepsNick]

Quote:
You pretty much answered your own question. Yes, it will affect succeeding generations when you cross breeds.....and you might not see it in the first generation. Chickens can be carrying all kinds of things that you can't see and this is why breeding chickens is so difficult. With most other animals you can see the influence of the crossing, but you can't always see it in chickens. A chicken can be a first generation cross to another breed and look exactly like a pure bred chicken. If it is further down the generation path, it may still look pure bred, but somewhere along the line the birds from these matings will throw traits that are not from the breed you think you have. Even well fixed breeds/colors have throwback because all chickens were 'made" by crossing breeds many years ago.

There are people who are somewhat successful crossing breeds to achieve some particular trait, but personally I never do it. There are ways to get to the same place without crossing breeds, but it may take a bit longer to accomplish. In the long run it is worth it in my opinion. If you cross breeds don't sell the offspring without telling the person what you have done so that they know what they are dealing with and why the strange babies are appearing.

Walt

Thank you for your time and advice, Walt. That is exactly what I was thinking... And never sell from a breed without letting customers know of your changes! I am glad to see Delaware auctions where the Columbian dilemma is addressed.

Nick

 

[WallTenters]

Quote:
As far as the penciled rocks, why cross out of the breed? Better to lose a bit on pattern and color than to gain that whole host of problems - go with a White Rock or any other color. Just a few generations and you'd be back to the correct pattern. Of course, you'd still have to tweek it a bit and get the perfect coloring back that you might have lost, but that happens with any colored bird anyway.

I agree 100% with Walt, but there are some crossings that could be done with out as much damage. Many of these proposed crosses were figured before the science of genetics was as well understood. The old timers were geniuses for figuring it out as well as they did, and it's only through them that any one of us has a snowball's chance in hell at raising these birds. However, sometimes their information was not correct.

 

[PepsNick]

Quote:
As far as the penciled rocks, why cross out of the breed? Better to lose a bit on pattern and color than to gain that whole host of problems - go with a White Rock or any other color. Just a few generations and you'd be back to the correct pattern. Of course, you'd still have to tweek it a bit and get the perfect coloring back that you might have lost, but that happens with any colored bird anyway.

I agree 100% with Walt, but there are some crossings that could be done with out as much damage. Many of these proposed crosses were figured before the science of genetics was as well understood. The old timers were geniuses for figuring it out as well as they did, and it's only through them that any one of us has a snowball's chance in hell at raising these birds. However, sometimes their information was not correct.

I believe it was Wynette who wanted to cross to the Brahmas to get some mire size on her Rocks. I don't get it, either. She dismissed the idea.

 

[blaundee]

Quote:
Huh, good point! I've never seen judges more concerned about eye-color than when it came to Cornish....Is it that the pearl is so difficult to draw out?

The pearl eye is very very hard to come by and breeding for it takes tenacity, needless to say there are very few that have them. All of mine do and I can tell you it wasn't by chance that's for sure. It is so bad that during the National poultry show in Shawnee Ok this year none of the 30 entries had the pearl eye, and there was even a petition circulating to have the APA standard changed to light red. I just happened to have a few birds in my truck that day and when some ole boy popped off that there are not any left, I said oh yeah come with me. Before I knew it there was a parade procession behind me and when these birds were pulled from their cages, they litteraly freaked out. Needless to say the naysayers were a little peeved at me as the petition then had no chance of going forward.
The originators of the petition were just being lazy and really didn't want to breed, cull, or find birds with it, so they thought it would just be easier to change how things are done. So needless to say this eye color disscussion amoung Cornish men is tenious at best.

here you can see a good example of the pearl eye.

AL
https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/uploads/10364_img_1090.jpg

Very nice pearl eye! So- do the babies have pearl eyes, or dark eyes? What age can you cull for pearl eyes? How do you breed for it- is it recessive or dominant? Is it related to any other traits?

 

[ultasol]

I took two of my large fowl silver laced wyandottes to Stevenson. Neither were in great condition, but I was focusing on the silkies because it was the Western Silkie National. My wyandottes are out of birds from Rick Hare.
I just took some growouts to the Hamilton, MT show so I could get the opinion of Gary Overton, and I'm not doing nearly as bad as I thought. Good on pattern, good on color, females are a little pinched in the back, males look good but aren't finished (which I knew). I now know which cockerels to keep and which to sell.

By the way, you PNW people should consider going to the Hamilton, MT show next year. This was my second year going, and it was FANTASTIC again. It is a smaller show, but they have seminars and good judges. Very kid-friendly show too, for those with wee ones.