Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[kathyinmo]

Quote:
Very nice Kathy

I need to clarify .... these are NOT my birds. These pictures are from the seller who is selling me birds. This stock came from Good Shepherd Poultry Ranch stock. Bob told me that Frank Reese (Good Shepherd Poultry Ranch) has the old Ralph Sturgeon Line that goes back to 1920. Its the oldest heritage line of Barreds there is in the world..

I am anxious and excited to get these. I go on Friday to pick them up. ..... not the ones in the photos, but started stock from them.

 

[Katy]

Quote:
Very nice Kathy

I need to clarify .... these are NOT my birds. These pictures are from the seller who is selling me birds. This stock came from Good Shepherd Poultry Ranch stock. Bob told me that Frank Reese (Good Shepherd Poultry Ranch) has the old Ralph Sturgeon Line that goes back to 1920. Its the oldest heritage line of Barreds there is in the world..

I am anxious and excited to get these. I go on Friday to pick them up. ..... not the ones in the photos, but started stock from them.

They're still nice.

Good Shepherd Poultry Ranch is not too far from me.

 

[fowlman01]

Quote:
Very nice Kathy

I need to clarify .... these are NOT my birds. These pictures are from the seller who is selling me birds. This stock came from Good Shepherd Poultry Ranch stock. Bob told me that Frank Reese (Good Shepherd Poultry Ranch) has the old Ralph Sturgeon Line that goes back to 1920. Its the oldest heritage line of Barreds there is in the world..

I am anxious and excited to get these. I go on Friday to pick them up. ..... not the ones in the photos, but started stock from them.

They look good Kathy. Ralph Sturgeon had the Thomson Ringlet line if you want to go back even further. Mr Thomson refused $1000.00 for a cockeral at the Madison Square Garden show in the 20's. That is how good they were. Ralph was a master breeder of Rocks.

Walt Leonard

 

[kathyinmo]

Heritage Large Fowl Thread
Quote:
$1,000. in the 20's ?????? ...... OMG, that must have been like a million today! Holy cow, he MUST have been a master at breeding! I love hearing all the history, and the names of the breeders. Tell us more!

 

[fowlman01]

Quote:
$1,000. in the 20's ?????? ...... OMG, that must have been like a million today! Holy cow, he MUST have been a master at breeding! I love hearing all the history, and the names of the breeders. Tell us more!

E. B. Thompson made $47k selling Barred Plymouth Rocks in 1927. I don't know if anyone could do that today. Barred Plymouth Rocks were a big deal back in those days. It was one of the few breeds that the APA printed a separate Standard and that was over 200 pages. I can't find mine at the moment, but I am pretty sure that it is well over 200 pages....maybe even 300 pages. There were two recognized varieties of Barred Rocks. Light and dark. There still is two forms, but you can only show one of them. (the one in the middle.....LOL!) Barred Rocks still come in a dark and light form, but the APA only recognizes one and the other can be used for double matings to sharpen color on the light form. You will get occasional darks. You will know when you have one.

Walt Leonard

 

[Robert Blosl]

I go to bed and wake up after sleeping ten hours and you guys have four pages on this thread with quality bird of all breeds. What a display of buckeyes. They are fantastic. Then for you who call the barred rocks domineckers which they are not. You see a real Dominique hen . They are half the size of a barred rock and have a do not have a single comb. So glad you posted this old historic breed that helped make the original barred rocks in the 1800s.

Chris the Reds look fantastic and I am so happy the folks on this board got to see what a good Rose Comb Rhode Island Heart age Red Looks like. This variety of Rhode Island Reds is so rare. For every Rose Comb there is Ten Single Comb Heritage Reds. In cold climates they are one of the best breeds to have if you learn how to breed them up to laying ect. The reason their combs do not freeze like a single comb. Look at the color on him. See the maganony dark even color. That’s the color you want on the old fashion Heart age Rhode Island Red. It’s like having a bunch of horses. Some horse has a red bay color. Some are so dark red they almost look black.

One time about eighteen years ago I was a small fair and talking to a master breeder on how her feeds and raises his bantams. Some person came up to our group and says there is a black chicken loose on the ground. The show secretary said I will go and catch him you guys keep on talking. He came back and someone asked what chicken was out. O it was one of Bobs Rhode Island Red males. The old man said Wow that’s a compliment. My Rhode Island Red looked to a visitor that he was a black chicken. My point is you want to breed them as dark as you can to keep the females even in color as hens.

Next you heard from one of my Heart age advisers Walt Lenard from California. When I have a question and I don’t have an answer I email Walt and he always helps me. I have been trying to learn how to breed the mallard color pattern on the Gray Call Duck and it’s been the hardest thing I have ever tried to learn. Walt has been breeding chickens all his life and when he tells you something you listen.

Next, you saw the three pictures of Frank Reese line of Barred Plymouth Rocks that Kathy posted. Frank Reese should get the award of the year or decade for preserving Heritage breeds of Large Fowl. He has taken many breeds of large fowl and breeds them to the standard of perfection and also made them a dual purpose breed as they were designed to do. They lay a good amount of eggs, they are fantastic in the frying pan and they are pretty to the eyes. Look at the clean barring white vs. black. He is teaching America about eating Heartage type chickens and how they taste better than store bought chickens. If we can only learn how to fatten up our chickens or select the best birds for eating that’s what I want to learn this year. I am so glad I have Frank advising me on some of my ideas this year only Barred Plymouth Rocks and is willing to share some of his barred rocks with beginners. More on how to get his strain of birds latter as I learn where they all are.

I have one picture to post of a new Heartage breeder named Jamie Duckworth from North Carolina. He was taught by a very good teacher Don Schrader how to breed Barred Rocks and Buckeyes using the old fashion Hogan method of breeding and culling. I have a picture sent to me by a new friend I am helping with barred rocks Mike Wagner of Michigan. Look at these two young Cockerels they are only about five months old. They were photographed last year. The male in the back won Grand Champion Large Fowl of the Show a few weeks ago as a cock bird. This is what I call true to breed Heritage Chickens. Keep the messages coming? This is the most exciting thread I have got started on the internet. I know many of you will benefit from it. If I can get only one of you out of a hundred to join my cause I will feel this tread is well worth the effort. We need more people saving the rare breeds of large fowl the Heartage old fashion Breeds. Bob

Above two Cockerels Jamie Duckworth Strain
Raised and owned by Mike Wagner Michigan

 

[kathyinmo]

Quote:
I hatched some of Jamie's stock! Wonderful to hear all this information, Bob! I sure hope we get lots more of you experts here on BYC. There is so much to learn, and so many of us appreciate you all teaching us! Jamie is registered on BYC. Maybe he will join in, too.

 

[joletabey]

Please, what is the old fashioned Hogan method of breeding and culling?

I have Delawares that are not hatchery stock. I KNOW that I have a long way to go with them, but Walt is helping us learn, and I hope to breed toward the SOP. Here are some of my girls:

8 week old pullet

Some of the hens

 

[Ducktang]

If you go to the ALBC website and look in the download section,
http://www.albc-usa.org/EducationalResources/chickens.html
you will see the method I use. Here is a synopsis on how I do it. This is an excerpt from my article I wrote for the Plymouth Rock Club Newsletter:

To summarize I acquired stock from two breeders. During the time I acquired my Barred
Rocks, I was simultaneously involved in a breed recovery program with the
American Livestock Breeds Conservancy (ALBC) involving the Buckeyes. I felt
that at the most I could manage two breeds and still hatch enough to raise to be
able to maintain a breeding flock for both. The reason I mention this is that
the ALBC has an assessment program for the Buckeyes that is very instrumental in
the culling process of any breed. Anyone can go to their website and download
the forms for use. I use that program as a basis for criteria that I look for
in my stock.
During the growing out process, you should keep your eye out for weak, deformed
and unthrifty chicks. Cull those as soon as you can, you are wanting the best
right now. I try to hatch in blocks of 20 and grow them all out together,
separating the pullets at about 8 wks. At 16 weeks I do my complete assessment
of each bird I raise. First item I do is to weigh the bird and record its
weight on my assessment sheet. I usually assess pullets first since they are
generally smaller than the cockerals. I cannot hold a bird and tell how much it
weighs, so I use put the bird in a plastic bucket sitting on a digital scale.
I then look at the head and see how large it is. Generally the heavier birds
have larger skulls meaning larger bones and an indicator of high vitality. I
then measure the heart girth, width and length of back and record those
measurements on my assessment sheet. I then take notice of how much fleshing of
breast and thighs the bird has. After all, these birds should have some meat on
those bones, at 16 wks they should be good eating size and you don't want all
bones. I like to involve anyone wanting to learn this assessment process help
me record the figures on the assessment sheet.
I then look at other aspects of the bird like shank size/color, points on comb and
pelvic/keel measurements. Lastly, I look at the barring on the feathers. I
rate the barring on a scale of 1-5, 5 being the best. I look at the saddle,
hackle, breast, primary and tail feathers grading each one on my sheet. If no
major defects are noted and the bird passes my benchmarks, I then tag it in a
manner that I can look at the bird in the pen walking around so I can observe
their behavior for future remarks.
This process has allowed me to select my birds in a manner that is standardized
and fair. It also allows me to immediately know which ones are the runts and do
not have good rates of growth and are culls. Several breeders I speak with also
emphasize that concentrating on the type, or shape, is priority. You can work
on color and patterns later, but that does no good if you don't have the correct
shape.
I evaluate my assessment sheet and I pick out the top 10% of each sex to band
and separate for further observation. I use weight and fleshing as the primary
criteria, and then follow there scores down in order of there evaluation. I
have found that those birds are going to be the best breeders in most scenarios.
I set my breeding pens up based on the fault I am trying to fix. The Barred
Rocks I acquired were leaps and bounds better than
any other stock I had seen, but still needed some refinement. I wanted to put
the color and fleshing on the other stock's size and rate of growth. After my
assessment the first year, I kept 1 male and 3 females from each family, keeping
the best of the best. I called one family W and the other family G based upon
who I got the original stock from. I crossed the two lines putting the male
from one family over the females of the other family. I called those "pens" G
line and W line and those names followed the females. I am sure there is a
better way to label your breeding pens, but that worked for me and you should do
what is easiest for you to remember. Keeping good records also helps to remind
you. This mating resulted in progeny of 50/50 GW. I hatched 190 chicks, as
many as I could stand, that year stirring up the gene pool greatly. This is
good and bad. First it brings every fault and good point to the surface, giving
the breeder ample opportunity to make the right choice for keepers. I saw
progeny that year every shape and size you can imagine. I will say, it made the
culling process fairly easy. If you put a bird on the scale and it weighs 1.5
lbs less than it should, you can immediately put that one in the cull pen, there
was 20 more behind it to pick from. Even if it had perfect color, its rate of
growth does not allow it to be indicative of the breed. It also allowed me the
opportunity to hold a really good bird and a really bad bird side by side, which
gave me the hands on feel of both. This tuned my senses tremendously.
The next year, I had available hens, pullets, cockerals
and roosters. This is when I cross the sons over the mothers and fathers over
daughters of both lines resulting in four breeding pens. My goal for that year
is to hatch at least 10 chicks from each of my best hens. I will then did my
selection process on these new birds and then consider all breeding stock on
there own merits. For subsequent years onward, I will mate young to old and set
up families rotating males on each family of hens. My mentor Don Shrider said
it best, "Remember, culling and selection are much more important than exactly
how the birds are mated."
Before you start breeding, you need to determine your goals for breeding. My
goal was to have good rates of growth with well fleshed birds. My secondary
goal was to get the type correct and then the coloring right. I have found that
when you get the first right, the second and third will follow. That is why I
weigh and handle my birds. I like to study photos of the birds in magazines,
internet or from shows. I also like looking in older poultry magazines for ads
of EB Thompson and other famous breeders of days gone by. I make stencils of
the profiles from these photos and paint them on the walls in the pens so I can
have side by side visuals.
I cannot say enough about how important it is to find a mentor, join a club and
read as much as you can about this subject. I would like to thank all those who
have helped me go from raising mongrels to thoroughbred stock.

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

Bob....good to see you here!!!

Jamie, you too. Jamie has been QUITE A BIG HELP TO ME

I think we can all learn a lot from these gentleman (and ladies if I overlooked anyone....not intentional) as they have the experience that the average backyard chicken fancier could really use to learn from

Guys...thanks for the help