Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[rodriguezpoultry]

I'm unsure as to what you mean as to who is breeding goods birds in the USA? There are many Langshans that will take Champion at a show? In the South, the Langshan is the predominant winner and judging by the Poultry Press, others in the northern part of the US are placing very well at shows.

I will stick with my original statement. All those wins were with the same Langshan hen. All the pictures of the Langshan in Poultry Press are of the same bird. I know Jennifer the owner. It is a great Langshan hen, but one bird making news does not make a strong breed.

I am not picking on anyone, but as an old timer (I'm past the 40 year criteria) I would like to see some people trying to preserve the heritage birds rather than all these projects. I am sure that there are a couple people breeding good Langshans, but you don't just get to a point and then everything falls into place. To keep them good takes a lot of work and it is never over. These birds don't stay good by themselves.!

Walt

I'm not sure if Jennifer is the name of Joe's wife or not, but I've seen Joe's birds in there fairly regularly. Blues and blacks, so I don't believe it is the same bird. I was in shock to see a blue in the Poultry Press.

I agree, poultry breeding is an ever-changing enigma. Just when you think you've got a good system, something comes along that completely ruins your thought process and way of doing things. For example, my hatching question about northern times to stop hatching and southern zones to stop hatching. You can't expect a line of good birds to always produce good birds. You're going to have some junk to clear out with every hatch.

Then, there is the fact that breeders each have their own "ideal" bird. Even though the standard calls for one thing, there is always room for interpretation and that will follow in that breeder's habits. You will see minute details that differ between each line. One likes a wider stance, one wants more depth of chest, one wants a black eye others want a chocolate eye. One wants very heavy outer leg feathering, while another wants much less feathering. One wants the angle of the tail to be very upright creating a very tight U whereas others want a more relaxed tail set that shows off the length of back and a U. There is just such variation.

Having good birds only increases the chances of getting good birds to continue with. It never guarantees that your flock will stay that way. You have to continuously "prune the bush" to keep the flock healthy.

Sorry, I rambled.


Thanks Jim for the vote of confidence! Maybe once I move down south again I will be able to make some shows down that way! Until then, I'm "stuck" up here! I am kind of in shock that there are not more FFA/4H participation in poultry shows. Many people only think of the meat birds and hatchery birds. It's a definitely culture shock from being in Oklahoma.

 

[fowlman01]

The Woman.....If Forrest asked you to keep up his line, that is good enough for me. I was just saying that I don't see a lot of good Langshans these days. The Langshan that is on every other page in PP in Jul and Aug belongs to Jennifer Wulff Frank....as in PP Wulffs. It is an outstanding hen! Poultry Press is full of pictures of that bird. The only other one belongs to J E Pilkerton (Champ Asiatic) and that is either a really bad picture or it is leaning forward.. The only blue I see is in the full page ad for Buddy Hudson.

In any event you are right on as far as what it takes to keep them up.

Anyone who breeds away from the SOP to their own ideal is going to back themselves into a corner. that has happened in other breeds. Then they want to change the SOP to match what they have. As you know Langshans require dark brown eyes yet you see black eyes. It is not a lot of points, but what happens is that all of a sudden someone wants to change the eye color to black because they can no longer get dark brown. As the Cornish Club recently found out, the APA does not change the Standard that has been in place for 100 years on Cornish eye color, just because someone can't get it anymore. Judges should use the SOP description when judging, not some "breeder's" idea of what it should be. Good breeders always have a distinguishing mark on their birds, that can be picked up with a discerning eye. I recognize birds in shows just because of the way they are put together..sometimes it is a good thing and sometimes it is not. Langshans should have "legs set well apart". That is pretty simple description, so when I see these Langshans with legs right next to each other and in some cases knock kneed, they are not going to make the cut with me.
Aside from what the SOP says it just looks wrong and it is an indication of an unthrify bird as the vital organs have to fit in a cramped place. Anyone who advocates legs close together in almost any breed is incorrect and no one should ever buy a bird like that. We have some Minorcas out here that look like they have one leg, the legs are so close together.

Walt

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

The Woman.....If Forrest asked you to keep up his line, that is good enough for me. I was just saying that I don't see a lot of good Langshans these days. The Langshan that is on every other page in PP in Jul and Aug belongs to Jennifer Wulff Frank....as in PP Wulffs. It is an outstanding hen! Poultry Press is full of pictures of that bird. The only other one belongs to J E Pilkerton (Champ Asiatic) and that is either a really bad picture or it is leaning forward.. The only blue I see is in the full page ad for Buddy Hudson.

In any event you are right on as far as what it takes to keep them up.

Anyone who breeds away from the SOP to their own ideal is going to back themselves into a corner. that has happened in other breeds. Then they want to change the SOP to match what they have. As you know Langshans require dark brown eyes yet you see black eyes. It is not a lot of points, but what happens is that all of a sudden someone wants to change the eye color to black because they can no longer get dark brown. As the Cornish Club recently found out, the APA does not change the Standard that has been in place for 100 years on Cornish eye color, just because someone can't get it anymore. Judges should use the SOP description when judging, not some "breeder's" idea of what it should be. Good breeders always have a distinguishing mark on their birds, that can be picked up with a discerning eye. I recognize birds in shows just because of the way they are put together..sometimes it is a good thing and sometimes it is not. Langshans should have "legs set well apart". That is pretty simple description, so when I see these Langshans with legs right next to each other and in some cases knock kneed, they are not going to make the cut with me.
Aside from what the SOP says it just looks wrong and it is an indication of an unthrify bird as the vital organs have to fit in a cramped place. Anyone who advocates legs close together in almost any breed is incorrect and no one should ever buy a bird like that. We have some Minorcas out here that look like they have one leg, the legs are so close together.

Walt

Sorry Walt. Just could not help myself! You are absolutly correct! Plus I agree with you. Still, just could not help myself!

 

[fowlman01]

You can't say it enough Jim..

w.

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

Please, call me Mika or ropo. I have "The Woman" because everyone thought I was a man. Too outspoken I suppose...

When I see a cow-hocked Langshan it makes my blood boil. Those legs are long enough without adding unstable hocks to support such a large frame. It's a mixture for disaster. I watch all of my males very closely. The females don't seem to have the same issues at all.

 

[Robert Blosl]

Quote: Where can I order a box like that and those old chicken shoes.

I thought about what has been said in the last 24 hours on this thread and the beginner. Some of you say you have this breed or that breed and got them from a hatchery which is fine. But do you know the responsibility and skill that is needed for these birds to breed them not for type but color. You almost need a ten year certificate saying you have raised something less complicated than to take on such hard hard hard color patterns.

I dont know what it is but beginners think they can take on these rare color patterns and drive me nuts wanting to know why they can not get eggs or chicks for these super hard color patterns or breeds. Heck if I got five old judges that where between 65 and 80 years old and asked them to score these old rare breeds they would average about 91 to maybe 92 points. Yet you make your decisions on the pictures you see in the catalogs or on the Internet or in the standard of perfection.

They are just not out there. Well I got off my soap box. I would take on a breed such as rocks and breed the white ones for five years then after I got through with them I would go after the hard colors and give it five more years. At least you learned how to hatch, brood and breed them for type as any nut job like me can breed a white chicken its not that hard.

Take on Reds, Silver Pencil led, Partridge, even Buff that takes unbelievable skill.

Just a thought from a guy who hopes to own a soap box like that some day.

Think first about learning to raise, condition and then breed these fowl. If you just want to say you have such and such breed thats fine but we want to keep these old breeds from going down the toilet. It wont be long in five to ten years the top producer of average large fowl will not be selling you eggs or chicks. They are all ready up in years.

Well I am going to tye some flys with my fishing club. You have a nice day.

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

Those colors are way out of my reach. Ill stick with the "easy" colors.

Although, I don't think white is that easy of a color at all. Especially to condition. have fun tying some flies!

 

[fowlman01]

Please, call me Mika or ropo. I have "The Woman" because everyone thought I was a man. Too outspoken I suppose...

When I see a cow-hocked Langshan it makes my blood boil. Those legs are long enough without adding unstable hocks to support such a large frame. It's a mixture for disaster. I watch all of my males very closely. The females don't seem to have the same issues at all.

I used it because I liked your sig. Mika next time. I have seen other women on here mistaken for a man for the same reason. Nothing wrong with being outspoken and a woman. Before I retired I had worked with women for the last 30 years of my career, so I don't have a problem with outspoken woman.....I'm kind of used to it. I had a sign in my office at the university that said..." Do you want to talk to the man in charge or the woman that knows the answers"?

Walt

 

[NotAFarm]

. Before I retired I had worked with women for the last 30 years of my career, so I don't have a problem with outspoken woman.....I'm kind of used to it. I had a sign in my office at the university that said..." Do you want to talk to the man in charge or the woman that knows the answers"?

Walt

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

No worries! Sorry if I sounded snippy! Just wanted to make it a bit easier/more personal. As much as you can make a post sound personal.

I like that sign! Reminds me of a sign I have at my house! "The rooster may crow, but the hen delivers." If you don't mind me asking, what was your position in the university? Were you a professor? What was your area of teaching?