Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[aveca]

I thought that was odd that it fell on the 25th..then they sent out another flyer saying it had been changed..I will remember it is the last sun of the month ..Im really letting me have time off for sayracuse...fingers crossed..beautiful show..and my favorite..I went to go look a couple years ago..I like the way it is done.. Im hoping over the next couple of years I have a few birds worth traveling around with..

this year has been a bad year for us..if you can think of a predator attack, we had it..have had chickens for 25 years, never experienced anything like this..racoons, weasles, hawk, dogs..it was one thing after the other..my freinds the faulkners who have a huge stable of poultry just over the hill from me had same problem if you could think of it, it happened to them..and they have quite a fortress over there..angela faulkner got champion goose at the twin tiers show..pastor romig brings them and I birds on his travels..

 

[thedragonlady]

American poultry journal: Volume 52 - Page 315 & 316
books.google.com
1921 - Free Google eBook http://tinyurl.com/blhfafc
Harold Tompkins Discusses Rhode Island Reds.
Harold Tompkins is a pretty good man to talk with about Rhode Island Reds. His grandfather, living in the Little Compton district of Rhode Island. had some of the early red stock. Some of the original red Game males. brought by whalers from the East Indies, were secured and bred by his grandfather as early as the Sixties.
His father, Lester Tompkins, helped to establish Rhode Island Red type. The grandfather died when Harold was eight years old. The modern type of the breed was established about 1900. in Harold's school days, and the whole progress of the Red, as a Standard fowl, is well within his memory.
During the Garden show, we had a long talk with Mr. Harold Tompkins. He spoke of the first prize cock in the Single Comb Red class, in the Garden. as representing his ideal type, except that he would prefer a little more drum stick. This cock was the outstanding first cockerel of last year, and he had filled down in breast and body, making him a trifle short in station. Continuing Mr. Tompkins said:
There is only one way to tell the right length of the thigh on a Red. I want two fingers of space above the hock joint, before you touch the fluff. Of course, if such a bird is too long in shank, from hock down to toes, that will make him too high.
I want the back horizontal. The underline of wing should be horizontal, parallel with the back line. The underline of the keel should also be parallel with the back. This makes three distinct horizontal lines.
You will find that if a male carries a keel as long as the span of your hand from out stretched thumb to end of outstretched finger, you will have good length.
Red breeders do not pay as much attention to the arch of neck as do the Wyandotte men, but it a Red male has a long slim neck it will also have a long, snaky head. If the neck is nicely arched down to the butts of the hackle, you get a good head.
If you get them right in thigh, you usually get them right in neck. A long legged bird usually carries his head away up, to balance himself. This makes a long neck.
The tail, according to the Standard, should be carried at an angle of 45 degrees. If that were reduced, and the tails pulled down to 30 degrees, and everybody would breed for the lower tails, the result would be a more symmetrical chicken. As it is, many breeders will mate a high tailed bird, provided he is otherwise a good one.
I do not want a bushy tail, and I do not want a loose, wobbly tail. I want a tail that is well set. If you breed a loose tail, the first thing you know some of the cockerels are carrying tails to one side.
Width of tail depends on width of back. A Red male with a wide back will carry a wide tail nine times out of ten.
I want breadth and substance. I do not like a narrow, razor back. If you put your two thumbs over the hips of the back, thumb to thumb, and the tips of your index fingers will not meet together behind the thighs, as you span the body of the bird with your hands, you have a good bodied bird. I like that type of body which I cannot span by two inches.
If the legs are too long, you lose depth and you lose width. In other words you
---------------------
(Karen: discussion of duck illustration which would not copy here.) A duck's legs are so far behind that the duck throws its head up and its back down. To get a level back in a R I. Red, Harold Tompkins points out the necessity of having the legs come out of the middle of the chicken so it will balance evenly on its legs.
------------------------
have a 'two years' bird,' that is, a bird that must go through the molt before filling out in body in proportion to its height.
Too many breeders are careless about the formation of the wings. They are chasing color so strong that they do not think about anything else. If these breeders would pick birds with wide flight feathers, they would quicckly eliminate slipped wings from their breeding. I do not mean to say that they would not get a single slipped wing, but that they would not get a number of them. I want the wing long, the flight feathers long and wide, and the web of the feather heavy.
In the matter of balance, it is important to consider where the legs come out of the body. I do not want the legs set at the back of the body. Such a bird runs his head up into the air and his back down, like an Indian Runner duck whose legs come out of the very rear of its body. Such a bird cannot hold his back level; he has too much weight forward of his legs, and in order to balance himself he throws his breast up and his head.
I want the body well balanced on the legs. I never saw a male whose legs came out of the middle of his 'body that did not carry his back balanced right. Remember to look and see where the legs come out of the body.
This is an easy matter to handle. There are two ends to a Red. If you will pick hens that have two ends, breast and stern, you will breed level backs.
(Continued on page 316.)
Now as to color. The fancy is too dark to suit me. Take any Single Comb cock or cockerel that is under the ribbons in the Garden today and put him 100 feet away from you, against a sheet of American flag red, and he will look black. If you put him against a sheet of black cloth, at that same distance, he will blend in with the black.
The right color in a Red stands out at 200 feet distance.
Color is a hard thing to describe. You cannot say that it is cherry, or bay or chestnut. The Standard calls for rich, brilliant red. It is hard to figure out exactly what that means, yet I presume it is as good a description as can be reduced to words.
There is a difference of opinion on rich red, but all want the brilliance. Even the admirers of a dark red agree on brilliance or sheen.
My first prize Single Comb Red cockerel at the last Boston Show suits me. The red color on him sticks out in beads and scintilates right out of the under color.
I do not want a color that looks black when you see a bird half way across the field. I want the color to match all over. Of . course, you cannot get the same sheen and luster on male's breast and fluff that you can on back, neck and wing bow, but I want the same shade of red.
I do not mind ticking in the hackle as long as it is ticking and not lacing. Ticking is not distinct; you have to handle the bird and examine the neck feathers to find it. The best birds have some licking.
Weakness in the undercolor of the male's hackle feathers is one of the worst things that can be bred. I would rather have a bird sound in undercolor of neck than one whose neck exactly matched his back.
There are two ends to a bird as regards color just as they are to shape. I do not want weakness in the fluff at the butt of tail, where the back and tail join.
There is often criticism on weakness of color over the hips. That is, in reality, over the kidneys. Many a bird that catches a little cold in the fall, as a result of too close housing, lack of green food, or for some other simple reason, is held back in his feather growth, and the result is a little white over his kidneys. Many a good bird shows it; and if a male is good at base of hackle and at butt of tail, a little weakness in the undercolor over the hips may be laid to some cause other than color weakness.
I want the saddle feathers wide. The ends of the long saddle feathers should match the ends of the hackle feathers. The wider you can get those saddle and hackle feathers, the more redness, the more weight of color, the more levelness of color will you secure.
Some fellows are color blind. They look at a bird and think that the ends of the saddle feathers are of the same shade of color as the top of the back, when they are not. The second Single Comb Red cock here at New York is the same bird that won third at Boston three weeks ago, and he is absolutely of one shade of color over back and saddle. And, he has one kind of feather, not a wide feather on his back and a narrow feather in his saddle.
It is easy to get sheen and high color on the wing bows; but if a bird carries the same quality of feathers in his wing bows that he carries in his back, you will usually find that he runs pretty even across his wing bows.
The wing coverts, which form the wing bar, should be just as red as the rest of the bird. Frequently some ticking shows here. A well-informed judge expects to see a little of it. If it is bad, however, it should not be pulled, for to pull it would leave a hole in the wing-bar that does not cover.
The red in the flights should be as near the color of the fluff of the bird as possible. When you open the wing and lay the flights across the fluff, they should match. There is no sheen in the red of the flights and they cannot be compared with the back.
The breast should be free from a light colored quill running through the center of each feather. As the breast comes down toward the fluff, it wants to hold the same rich tone of color.
The fluff should have as much color down to the skin as possible, including a red quill.
What is a bird worth such as you have described?
They are not on the market. In other words, the bird I have described is what every breeder should be trying to produce. If a man could raise birds of this kind each year, he could sell them as fast as he could ship them at $300 each. They arc coming, a few more each year; but the fellows who are dolling them up are not trying for them.
How do you go about it to produce such chickens?
You can produce them if you get the right female, I am fussy about picking out females. Some fellows pick out females by their toe marks, to get all sisters in a pen. I want sisters provided they are right.
I want a hen that was good as a pullet. She wants to be as dark or darker in hackle than her darkest hack feathers. Black in her hackle does not mean dark, for black is not red. Cherry red in hackle is not dark. I am talking now about a dark neck on the female and want to emphasize it. I also want a nice broad feather in the hackle.
This hen may be a little mottled in back, and the breast may be uneven in color, but the deepest colored feathers are of a good pullet color; and all feathers, including the mottled ones, must carry a rich, deep red undercolor to the skin. This hen may look had because of mottled feathers on surface of breast and back. But she has hackle and undercolor, and they count. If she has a little slate, it does not hurt, as long as the red undercolor is red and not silvery.
Do not pay so much attention to the tail of the female. Some hens show black and red in tail, or are what you would call streaked. Of course, if the hen is slatey, she will have a black tail. You have to balance the tail on the male side.
The web of the feathers in the wings should be red, unless the male is weak in black markings.
Do not breed a male with smut. The little smut I use is always on the female side. I get along pretty well without the use of smut, because I pick breeding males largely by their second set of chick feathers. They grow three sets of feathers, and when the cockerels are four months old, I go over them, and those that show smoke, which later clears up and goes into the show without a lot of plucking—are the males I breed.
That slate in their blood is a color feeder. This feeding of iron for color puts a bar on the bird. But, take these males as described and breed to red females, free from smut, and you have strong color breeders.
Select a male whose breast feathers are of the same color and quality and match the reddest feathers in the hen's back. If she carries a broad feather, he wants to have the same kind. Nine times out of ten she will carry a broad feather if she is one of the right kind of birds. Little, narrow feathers have no quality.
In the above interview, Harold Tompkins gives what we believe to be the best outline for breeding Rhode Island Reds that has been published to date.
Mr. Tompkins answered every question put to him freely, frankly and fully. He was not afraid of telling "too much."
We suggest that every breeder of Reds cut out this editorial and read it again next year, and the year after that, for the more he sees and understands about Reds, the more he will learn by reading and re-reading what Mr. Tompkins has here said about Reds. --

This is one of the most articulate descriptions for breeding that I have ever read. I wish I'd known this gentleman!

 

[fowlman01]

This is one of the most articulate descriptions for breeding that I have ever read. I wish I'd known this gentleman!

Weren't you around then?

w.

 

[thedragonlady]

Weren't you around then?

w.

Sorry. I was just a twinkle in my father"s eye.

 

[3riverschick]

Originally Posted by thedragonlady

This is one of the most articulate descriptions for breeding that I have ever read. I wish I'd known this gentleman!
===========================================
Hi dragonlady,
I agree. What wonderful detail. This is the old "Art of Breeding" type of counsel.

My question for the veterans among us, do these comparasions of body parts ; measurements by the hand and their implications work for other breeds? I have searched so long for something like this for Sussex. Or is Mr. Tompkins discussing a different body type? Can I use even some of this counsel in Sussex or is the body type between the two breeds so different this is only RIR specific?
Thanks,
Karen

 

[fowlman01]

Originally Posted by thedragonlady

This is one of the most articulate descriptions for breeding that I have ever read. I wish I'd known this gentleman!
===========================================
Hi dragonlady,
I agree. What wonderful detail. This is the old "Art of Breeding" type of counsel.

My question for the veterans among us, do these comparasions of body parts ; measurements by the hand and their implications work for other breeds? I have searched so long for something like this for Sussex. Or is Mr. Tompkins discussing a different body type? Can I use even some of this counsel in Sussex or is the body type between the two breeds so different this is only RIR specific?
Thanks,
Karen

He has very good ideas and most of this would apply to other breeds, but you would have to take into consideration the Standards for that breed as all chickens are not built the same way. Some have sloping backs etc. Legs well apart is always a good ting as it gives room for the organs. The leg placement determines the station of the bird.

(Karen: discussion of duck illustration which would not copy here.) A duck's legs are so far behind that the duck throws its head up and its back down. To get a level back in a R I. Red, Harold Tompkins points out the necessity of having the legs come out of the middle of the chicken so it will balance evenly on its legs.
Ducks have legs in different places depending on the breed. The Runner has them far back to get the upright station, but Rouens, Aylsbury's and some others that have horizontal carriage have them close to the center of the bird. The leg placement determines the station of the bird as noted..

I am on my way to do some judging, but I will read this again when I return.

Walt

 

[Robert Blosl]

Harold's article is a good one I have never seen it yet read many he wrote for the Red Club. That was in a time when the Reds were not like they are today. They had weak color so so type but he had the top birds at the time. He wrote differently in the 1950s but look how much had changed in almost 30 years. He liked to breed his chicks from hens and cock bird that molted back like he wanted them to be. Pullets and Cockerels can fool you but after they molt the true bird shows up. So you keep say six ckls and ten or five teen pullets. After they molt you keep three males and say six females. Breed from them for yourself and you should improve them each year. Sell eggs or chicks from the top pullets and cockerels they are still very good birds but the true or best breeders is your two to four your old birds.

He died in his sleep in 1954 at the age of I think 72 his father Lester died twenty years early-er the same way in his sleep. Anyone who knew him or you could talk to old timers like I did that knew him said he was the KING of Reds. His hero and the person he wanted to be com paired to was E B Thompson the famed Barred Rock King from New York in the 1920s.

bob great find if you find more keep rooting post them for us. bob

 

[aveca]

This is one of the most articulate descriptions for breeding that I have ever read. I wish I'd known this gentleman!

I know excellent reading..I want a hard copy of this.

 

[coopslave]

I've been lurking on this thread for awhile and trying to learn as much as I can I raise Barnevelders which I believe are a heritage breed since they are listed by the HPBAA and meet the requirements for being heritage. I've been working on bringing back the dual purpose qualities and improving egg quality for a few years. I do have two project lines that involved outcrossing Barnevelders to wyandottes and Dark cornish. I don't know how the project lines would fit into the Heritage requirements though they are high% Barnevelder blood at this point.

Here's one of my blue pullets from this year.


I've found them to be a very hardy breed in my area though the excessive heat sometimes bothers them when it gets above 100 for days on end. The hens will hatch out eggs and are excellent mothers.


I tend to spoil my chickens with good feed, but I gave 12 pullets to a neighbor in March and she hasn't even gone through 2 bags of feed. She free ranges them and feeds them table scraps. They have been providing her with plenty of eggs despite having to forage for most of their diet.

Trisha

Your blues are coming along very nicely! I raised Barnevelders in Australia for almost 10 years. I was developing the double laced blue as well. It was coming along nicely until we moved back up here and I had to leave them behind.
Keep up the good work, nice to see some nice Barnevelders up here.

 

[tls_ranch]

Your blues are coming along very nicely! I raised Barnevelders in Australia for almost 10 years. I was developing the double laced blue as well. It was coming along nicely until we moved back up here and I had to leave them behind.
Keep up the good work, nice to see some nice Barnevelders up here.

Thanks Your blue project birds helped to inspire me to start work on my own! I'm sorry you had to leave them behind.

Some of my pullets this year have really nice lacing for blues though not as good as the "blacks". I think it's harder to get clean lacing with the blue gene in effect. The black laced full siblings tend to have even better lacing than their blue siblings.

Trisha



edited to add: I have a very dark blue cockerel this year that doesn't have the brassier gold tones that I've seen in most other blues. His main problem is that his under color is too light, but he also hatched from a very dark egg. He's still very young and of course not "perfect", but I'll have to see if I can match him up with the right hens and see what he produces.