Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[BarnGoddess01]

Quote:
Thank you for sharing that! (And it's EXACTLY the kind of story I expected to hear - you didn't start with "junk" AND you had a good eye/instinct from the start. Somebody respected that and you were on your way .... )

 

[CluckyCharms]

Clucky,

A piece of advise from one only in the real "breeding side" of the hobby for 4 yrs now....so take that for what its worth

1. Look at the space you have available (coops, covered runs, brooders, grow out pens, etc) and how much space/facilities you are willing to commit to. I am focused (finally) on a single variety of plymouth rocks, Columbians. I have 3 large coops (6x8x8) each attached to an outdoor run approx 20x20 each. I have 2 smaller coops (4x4s) with 10x10 runs I use as grow out pens. Then I have 2 large brooders capable of holding about 2 dozen chicks each, up to about 6 weeks old. I hatch about 100 (+/-) chicks annually and keep roughly 1 in 10. It takes all of the aforementioned space to raise all the young ones to an age where you can comfortably cull without fear of tossing out a good one. For me that's about 8-10 months. After all the culling has taken place, these coops become breeding pens for the next season. I currently have breeding trios in each of the 3 large ones.

2. The experts tell you to tackle the simpler breeds first for one reason.....you are less likely to get frustrated and toss in the towel. Color patterned birds (as I am finding out first hand) are certainly more challenging than a solid colored bird. However, especially these guys here, the experts are always willing to give you advise if you ask, BUT, be willing to be thick skinned and accept constructive criticism. They won't purposely hurt your feelings, but instead speak from YEARS of experience and in most cases have gone through already whatever you might be dealing with.

3. As a personal opinion, I'd say pick 1 variety of 1 breed that you really like (simple or not) and put all of your energy and effort there. That's what I've done and it was only through Bob B here that I obtained my first trio a few falls back. The Columbian pattern is certainly not a simple variety, but one I really was drawn to and I've made a little progress with them....still a LONG way to go. You won't be able to "save all the breeds that need saving" but you WILL be able to make significant progress with the one you chose to work with. Remember, this is a hobby. It should be fun, it shouldn't be a "job".

Just my 2 cents worth for today

....now back to your regularly scheduled programming

Thank you very much for your reply to my post, and what you said makes perfect sense. I'm glad you went with your rocks even knowing it would be hard to go with something that "involved" with regard to their color patterns.

Now I feel I'm being selfish in wanting to save only the ones I like. =(

I know all of them are worthy of being saved but I can't see myself potentially helping to save a breed I don't like (aesthetically) and having to care for it every day. There are certain chickens I could stare at all day long and never get tired of them and get all excited about wanting to help...and then there are others I look at and say "oh, another one". I wish I weren't like that but I am (at least I'm being honest about it and that has to count for something).

Are there any colorful game fowl that would qualify as a heritage breed? I know the smart thing to do would be to get a solid color and concentrate on type...but that's not who I am.

To me - it might be smart to go with a solid color for a newbie, and stick with learning type. But - if that person doesn't like solid colored birds do you really think they're going to put all of their effort, their time, their energy, their very *being* into preserving that breed - as much as they would with a multi-colored breed they absolutely *adore*? I completely applaud and have great admiration for those who can do that, but in all honesty, I could never do that, because I'm selfish and I like what I like. =(

Very seldom does anything drive a person more than if it's something they are passionate about.

 

[CluckyCharms]

I'll tell you how I started & I suspect it might not be too different than Bob, Walt or any other breeder.
I grew up on a farm & we always had a flock of "Bantys" running around. Cross breeds to be sure & probably [if memory serves] mostly Old English Bantams. They were very colourful & lots of fun. Then I graduated to birds from Murray McMurray Hatchery. This was in the early 1960s & in those days McMurray maintained breeding flocks & produced a much better quality bird than they reportedly do now. Let me back up a step-before I ordered the McMurray chicks I bought a used 1958 edition of the APA Standard Of Perfection-I still have it. I studied that book 'till the pages started coming loose. Showed the McMurray birds for a couple of years & had some success with them-I told you they were better back then.
Side story: I also bought one pair of adult Blue Cochin Bantams from Strombergs. They came shipped Railway Express in a bean crate. SHowed them at the first ENYSPA show in Cobleskill, NY. The hen was Champion Bantam.
By then I had met some well known exhibitors at shows I had attended. An ABA Judge, Bruce Hagan, lived near me. He raised only Black Rosecomb Bantams. Mr Hagan, after some incessant nagging on my part, agreed to sell me a trio of Rosecombs. I went to pick them out & he left me & my 1958 Standard in a pen of about 40 young Rosecombs. I spent most of the morning there handling birds, checking the Standard, checking birds again. Finally I picked out the trio I wanted & paid the $5 price. Mr Hagan said he thought I might have picked out the best trio in the pen. Later that year I bought some really nice SC Dark Brrown Leghorn Banatms from another local breeder/exhibitor & got rid of all the McMurray birds. From then on I only bought birds from established lines. More than once I tried mixing lines sometimes successfull, often not. So, I never really started with"junk" & transformed it into something of quality. I'm firmly of the belief that you can't make a silk purse from a sows ear.

I've actually been somewhat considering a certain breed from Stromberg's...funny that you mentioned it because I haven't seen a whole lot of talk about them on the forum. Most hatcheries spoken of are mcmurray and ideal. Do you know if Stromberg's chicks are still good quality today?

I agree that you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear...our dogs eat pigs ears and I have a hard time picturing those as silk purses.

I wonder why the hatcheries used to sell champions (since your bantam hen won champion) and you don't hear of that happening anymore. What changed?

 

[BarnGoddess01]

I can contribute this - if you are a newbie to poultry, Black Copper Marans are probably NOT the place to start - even if you have the best breeders working with you and you drool over the egg colour. Newbies to poultry need to start with WELL established breeds (I agree with the solid colour advice) with "culls" that are easily show quality, just maybe not up to THEIR standard, and not breeds with complicated, new colours (and genes) that even the Pros struggle with!! <sigh>

 

[CluckyCharms]

I can contribute this - if you are a newbie to poultry, Black Copper Marans are probably NOT the place to start - even if you have the best breeders working with you and you drool over the egg colour. Newbies to poultry need to start with WELL established breeds (I agree with the solid colour advice) with "culls" that are easily show quality, just maybe not up to THEIR standard, and not breeds with complicated, new colours (and genes) that even the Pros struggle with!! <sigh>

I completely agree with regard to everything you said except for the fact that it's not who I am. You're right - it would be the safer path, yes. It would also be the easier path, yes. But I'm not fond of things that are safer and easier. Saving a breed I dislike, it's just not right (in my opinion). I think if you're going to help "rescue" a breed from extinction it should be a breed you adore. A breed you think highly of. A breed you have a strong desire and inclination to want to go to the ends of the earth to preserve. I can't speak for everybody here or anyone anywhere else, I can only speak for myself, and I know myself, and I know my quirks and my preferences. I honestly would not put forth the effort required if I were to go with a breed I did not like...and that's not fair to the breed, nor is it fair to the person who entrusted those birds to my care.

 

[CluckyCharms]

Uh oh...I just came across a picture of a Redcap hen...now that's an interestingly colored bird for a hen! Uh oh because I already decided which breeds were my top 2 picks and then I found this one. It says they are classified as a light fowl so I guess that would mean they're not a large fowl heritage breed? I think I like these, too.

 

[mg15]

"Early on, Bob stated a truism that I believe is very, very important to those just starting out. Get the very, very best trio or small group you possibly can secure. "

What would they be ?

 

[galanie]

Here is some pics of the first one I built. This was before I had the door adjusted properly. Above this post is a picture of that OP's bank of trap nests. https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/567357/the-trap-nesting-thread/160#post_7576426

The pigeon doors have been suggested before, but I've yet to find anyone that has actually and truly used them for chickens. Anyone here done it?

I have, they worked real well.
I had them on nest boxes and on some coops I had at one time.

The traps I used were like this one

Chris

Ok then. I know you realized exactly what I was talking about. In the original trap nest thread you suggested these then in the end admitted you'd never really done it. I guess you have since then. Good to know. It's been a while. I still hold, by the way, that it's so easy and cheap to make the doors like I have for $1 or less once you get the hang of it that spending $10 or more on the pigeon doors is a waste of good money. But I have a lot more abilities and time than I do money.

 

[thedragonlady]

Maybe it's something to do with who you know? I don't know...I would think contacts are a big part of it.

Contacts ARE a big part of weather you will get good birds from name breeders or not. Every top breeder is approached by many newbies who want to buy "Top Birds". You have to pay your dues before a good breeder will let you have his best stock for sale. Why should anyone waste the results of years of breeding on someone who is liable to either condition and breed those birds wrong, or just run out of enthusiasum in a year or two?

My best advice to a newbie is to find a mentor in your ONE , I repeat ONE, chosen breed, and breed it, and learn for 2 or 3 years, while listening to your mentor all the while. If after 2 or 3 years, you have not botched up the rearing of chicks, and conditioning of those birds, ask your mentor to vouch for you.

The only other way to get some really good birds is to study the standard, and see what is winning at shows, by actually going for 2 or 3 years, and buying good culls of a top breeders' flock off traders' row. That's the hard way, and you'll screw up many times since no one has told you what to actually DO with what you've bought.

I have some very good young Buff Orps for sale right now. My first preference is to sell them to people who will rear, show, and breed them properly, based on their track record.They are not cheap, but with them goes my promise of mentoring to ensure the success of the next generation. Most good breeders offer this, but few take advantage of it.That's a pity, but many newbies are under the mistaken impression that they can re-invent the light bulb.

 

[CluckyCharms]

Contacts ARE a big part of weather you will get good birds from name breeders or not. Every top breeder is approached by many newbies who want to buy "Top Birds". You have to pay your dues before a good breeder will let you have his best stock for sale. Why should anyone waste the results of years of breeding on someone who is liable to either condition and breed those birds wrong, or just run out of enthusiasum in a year or two?

My best advice to a newbie is to find a mentor in your ONE , I repeat ONE, chosen breed, and breed it, and learn for 2 or 3 years, while listening to your mentor all the while. If after 2 or 3 years, you have not botched up the rearing of chicks, and conditioning of those birds, ask your mentor to vouch for you.

The only other way to get some really good birds is to study the standard, and see what is winning at shows, by actually going for 2 or 3 years, and buying good culls of a top breeders' flock off traders' row. That's the hard way, and you'll screw up many times since no one has told you what to actually DO with what you've bought.

I have some very good young Buff Orps for sale right now. My first preference is to sell them to people who will rear, show, and breed them properly, based on their track record.They are not cheap, but with them goes my promise of mentoring to ensure the success of the next generation. Most good breeders offer this, but few take advantage of it.That's a pity, but many newbies are under the mistaken impression that they can re-invent the light bulb.

good stuff, good stuff! I definitely don't want to reinvent the lightbulb - I just want to increase the wattage of the ones that already shine.