Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[3riverschick]

It's fun to browse these old "secrets" and faking books. My fav is Hubbard's Poultry Secrets .
Medicine stuff and cures should be double checked with your vet or ignored if you can't, as most all is obsolete. We have more modern ways now.
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Secrets of expert exhibitors and easy lessons in judging
Subtitle: "An exposition of the methods employed by breeders of standard-bred fowls in preparing their birds for poultry shows, including many dishonest schemes occasionally preacticed"
By Frank Heck
American Poultry Journal 1920
(Google Books)
http://tinyurl.com/anf4qfw
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Tricks of the Poultry Trade: Some Methods, Little Things and "nigh Cuts" Practiced Among the "Initiated" of the Craft
edited by Reese Victor Hicks (editor "Poultry Culture"
Published by Poultry Culture Publishing, Kansas, 1909, 1910
(Google Books)
http://tinyurl.com/b52rbhk
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Hubbard's Poultry Secrets on Mating, Feeding and
Conditioning Fancy Poultry for the Show Room.
By Charles Henry Hubbard
Appears to be self-published (1915)
http://tinyurl.com/axuzsof (Google Books)
http://tinyurl.com/au39t84 (HathiDigital Trust)
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The Art of Faking Exhibition Poultry: An Examination of the Faker's Methods and Processes With Some Observations on Their Detection
By George R. Scott
Home Farm Books, Nov 30, 2008 - 132 pages
Home Farm Books are republishing these classic works in affordable, high quality, modern editions, using the original text and artwork.
Originally published London, 1934. A fascinating insight into the art of faking poultry for show or exhibition winning purposes. Contents Include: Faking and its Problems - The Psychology of Faking - Modern Tendencies in Faking - The Detection of Faking - The Techniques of Faking - Dying Plumage - Bleaching Plumage - Faking Leg Colour - Inserting and Extracting Feathers - Faking Lobes - Colouring Eggs - Dyes Employed - Chemicals Used in Faking - etc. Many of the earliest books, particularly those dating back to the 1900s and before, are now extremely scarce and increasingly expensive. Home Farm Books are republishing these classic works in affordable, high quality, modern editions, using the original text and artwork.
The Art of Faking Exhibition Poultry, which condemned the practice while giving precise instructions on how it could be done .
Available all over the Net , starting about 21.00
Have bought books before from Home Farm Books. They do a nice job on the reprints.
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Poultry secrets.
by Boyer, Michael K. 1858-
Published 1909
(HathiDigital Trust)
http://tinyurl.com/b9fafkd
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Poultry secrets revealed,by Townsend, Charles F.
Published 1911
(HathiDigital Trust)
http://tinyurl.com/cc9cyey
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Secrets in fowl breeding. A companion treatise to "Diseases of domestic poultry." ...
by Burnham, Geo. P. 1814-1902.
Published 1877
(HathiDigital Trust)
http://tinyurl.com/bab5dzp
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Best Regards,
Karen

 

[NYREDS]

The only show world I have any experience in is dogs, and I remember when I first started showing I was appalled at the way exhibitors would alter their dogs' appearances with grooming. Judges reward this, so people do it. You would be amazed at the change you can make in a dog's outline by "cutting some fur."

I have friends that show Mastiffs. They told me about another exhibitor who had a dog that was very nice but had a void in the colour of his mask. They filled it in with black marker. When the judge grasped the dog's face to examine the teeth her hand came away covered with black ink.

 

[surnikis]

To work with andalusians you would only go outside the breed , but not the class when necessary, most pure breeds that are acquired are from commercial hatcheries, these are bred for volume and production (what good is a breeding pen that doesnt produce alot of eggs) but to achieve this and one of the consequences of flock breeding is smaller size, loss of certain type (in accordance to the APA and book of standard perfection) . If all you want is a blue andalusian , by all means go buy some from a hatchery they will look fine...but dont go to a large show and expect to win with a hatchery bird . Many breeders use outcrosses , but it is not something to use lightly . once it is done it may be 5-10 years before you achieve your goal. it is not a one time cross , but a building of line breeding and selection after an out cross. Many people buy birds for exhibition and pay high prices in the hundreds for 1 bird, but in a few years of breeding find that thay are no longer winning with this bloodline. the most common culprit is no record keeping and no line breeding to maintain. As a breeder I enjoy building lines , it is no fun to " buy a winner" I have but only when it had the qualities I wanted to add to my line. I have been working on some breeds for years and have not yet shown them as they are not ready. but the science and the work that goes to improving a line is way deeper than can be explained. to me it is like comparing checkers to a game of chess . any one can buy a winning bird , ah but to enhance and breed winning lines that is what is fun

 

[fowlman01]

To work with andalusians you would only go outside the breed , but not the class when necessary, most pure breeds that are acquired are from commercial hatcheries, these are bred for volume and production (what good is a breeding pen that doesnt produce alot of eggs) but to achieve this and one of the consequences of flock breeding is smaller size, loss of certain type (in accordance to the APA and book of standard perfection) . If all you want is a blue andalusian , by all means go buy some from a hatchery they will look fine...but dont go to a large show and expect to win with a hatchery bird . Many breeders use outcrosses , but it is not something to use lightly . once it is done it may be 5-10 years before you achieve your goal. it is not a one time cross , but a building of line breeding and selection after an out cross. Many people buy birds for exhibition and pay high prices in the hundreds for 1 bird, but in a few years of breeding find that thay are no longer winning with this bloodline. the most common culprit is no record keeping and no line breeding to maintain. As a breeder I enjoy building lines , it is no fun to " buy a winner" I have but only when it had the qualities I wanted to add to my line. I have been working on some breeds for years and have not yet shown them as they are not ready. but the science and the work that goes to improving a line is way deeper than can be explained. to me it is like comparing checkers to a game of chess . any one can buy a winning bird , ah but to enhance and breed winning lines that is what is fun

The idea is to breed birds that are so good that no one can buy a bird and beat you. When you can do that, you are really a breeder.

Walt

 

[Pozees]

I have friends that show Mastiffs. They told me about another exhibitor who had a dog that was very nice but had a void in the colour of his mask. They filled it in with black marker. When the judge grasped the dog's face to examine the teeth her hand came away covered with black ink.

Handling a dog well is definitely an art, and getting a dog to perform is important - it is a "show" after all - so being out-handled, while depressing, is at least something an exhibitor can work on and expect to do better in future shows; losing to a dog you and everyone else in the ring knows was presented with covered faults just takes the wind out of your sails. When a judge puts his or her hands on a dog and can feel the faults that were groomed over and still puts the dog up, you just wind up wondering what you spent all that time and money for. I don't mean to imply that happens all the time at every show, but it does happen. I think most judges try to put up the closest to breed standard, and some have clear preferences (one likes a certain head, another will measure for height, etc.) - as long as the preference is within standard you learn it and move on, but it's an expensive curve.

Do similar preferences occur in poultry shows? Recently someone mentioned a judge selecting large birds, even larger than the SOP calls for; just wondered if that is unusual.

 

[neopolitancrazy]

When I was in high school, I saw the Ag teacher give a year-end award to the "Clairol Ladies" who were most proficient at dying show pigs to make them more attractive to the eye. As an adult, I see judges award prizes to woolsheep who have been given public appications of creme rinse on their fleece just before they hit the show ring. I guess there really is nothing new under the sun.
Angela

 

[Pozees]

When I was in high school, I saw the Ag teacher give a year-end award to the "Clairol Ladies" who were most proficient at dying show pigs to make them more attractive to the eye. As an adult, I see judges award prizes to woolsheep who have been given public appications of creme rinse on their fleece just before they hit the show ring. I guess there really is nothing new under the sun.
Angela

Dying pigs? Seriously? Good grief.

 

[Chloe77]

Dying pigs? Seriously? Good grief.

Dying pigs? That's just sick.

 

[fowlman01]

Handling a dog well is definitely an art, and getting a dog to perform is important - it is a "show" after all - so being out-handled, while depressing, is at least something an exhibitor can work on and expect to do better in future shows; losing to a dog you and everyone else in the ring knows was presented with covered faults just takes the wind out of your sails. When a judge puts his or her hands on a dog and can feel the faults that were groomed over and still puts the dog up, you just wind up wondering what you spent all that time and money for. I don't mean to imply that happens all the time at every show, but it does happen. I think most judges try to put up the closest to breed standard, and some have clear preferences (one likes a certain head, another will measure for height, etc.) - as long as the preference is within standard you learn it and move on, but it's an expensive curve.

Do similar preferences occur in poultry shows? Recently someone mentioned a judge selecting large birds, even larger than the SOP calls for; just wondered if that is unusual.

People are people. Sometimes judges have preferences that are not in line with the SOP. The biggest difference I have seen with dog vs chciken is that we don't need a professional handler to win a champion. and....winning a champion is usually a whole lot harder with chcikens than it is with dogs. Our classes are quite a bit larger as a rule. In addition we use coop cards with exhibitor numbers so it is a lot harder to match a bird with it's owner. Not impossible, but usually this is not the case. I can recognized some breedings, but that does not necessarily means that the bird is still owned by that person. bottom line is that the birds are judged on their merits and not the owners merits.

Walt

 

[Chloe77]

People are people. Sometimes judges have preferences that are not in line with the SOP. The biggest difference I have seen with dog vs chciken is that we don't need a professional handler to win a champion. and....winning a champion is usually a whole lot harder with chcikens than it is with dogs. Our classes are quite a bit larger as a rule. In addition we use coop cards with exhibitor numbers so it is a lot harder to match a bird with it's owner. Not impossible, but usually this is not the case. I can recognized some breedings, but that does not necessarily means that the bird is still owned by that person. bottom line is that the birds are judged on their merits and not the owners merits.

Walt

Walt, is it possible to fake breeds?

Like, say you had a ok looking Barred Rock. Med sized, with uneven barring.

What if you told the judge that the bird was a Dominique?