Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[buffalogal]

During breeding season, I keep my breeders penned.

I do too Kathy. But that doesn't mean there isn't opportunity to take photos of them not "cooped up".

 

[NanaKat]

My list:
Wyandotte: Columbian, Black, (Birchen- not recognized I know, but working on them)
Cochin: White, Blue, Black
Australorp: Black

Does anyone know a breeder for Black Wyandotte who sells eggs?

 

[NYREDS]

If these two things don't coincide, then what's the point? If a bird does not meet the SOP and wins at a SOP sancutioned event, then what does that say about the SOP?
In breeding heritage breeds, we are trying to bring the birds back to their glory days. We are trying to KEEP the traits that made them so wonderful years ago. When a bird wins or places, that is a sign of approval, a sign that the breeder is doing right by the breed.

JUDGES... I wonder how much SIZE matters? How much does SIZE influence your decisions? IF two birds are EQUAL in every measure except size, would you choose the heavier bird that you think might be outside of the SOP weight range OR the smaller one that is within the SOP weight range? Has a judge on BYC ever called for a bird to be weighed?

Honestly, when I've been to shows, I didn't pay attention to who was winning. I was just awestuck at the SIZE of some of the entries and didn't pay attention to the awards.

Size, like many other factors, is a breed characteristic so it matters as much as other defining breed characteristics. It's specific value is defined by the scale of points. The answer to your question is I would choose the one within the Standard weight range, of course.

 

[NYREDS]

Sorry, I was posting as I read along to catch up.
How often do you disqualify birds for being OVER the weight limit?

I am asking not to fight. I am honestly curious to see if the over weight issue is as bad as I think it is based on the shows that I have been too. There have been Some REALLY BIG Roosters at these shows. I almost could of put a saddle on them and rode them home LOL.

To clarify disqualifying for weight is something I've done but not something I do frequently. Since I'm not weighing birds the variation from stamdard weight has to be obvious. I haven't kept records of this but I believe I've disqualified for under weight more often than over weight. The weight problem runs in both directions depending on breed & sometimes variety. While some large fowl breeds often appear too large others are too small. The same is true in bantams. I suspect a lot of winning OEGBs are well below standard weight & I see a lot of Black Cochin Bantams that barely fit in a bantam cage.

 

[ronott1]

I just found out that dorkings actually seem to do fairly well in high heat (Climate, not oven temperature. Although...). Can anyone recommend a quality dorking breeder with single combed birds? I am aware of one beeder who has lovely looking white dorkings, but they have rose combs.

SG Dorking Breeders:

http://www.freewebs.com/whidbeypoultry/forsale.htm
Emma will be at the Stockton show with her Award winning SG Dorkings.

Another good one is here: http://www.starroseranch.com/

SG Dorkings may be available in the Spring from Starroseranch so check back then.

Dick Horstman took 2012 off from Selling them but may have SG Dorkings back for 2013.

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

SG Dorking Breeders:

http://www.freewebs.com/whidbeypoultry/forsale.htm
Emma will be at the Stockton show with her Award winning SG Dorkings.

Another good one is here: http://www.starroseranch.com/

SG Dorkings may be available in the Spring from Starroseranch so check back then.

Dick Horstman took 2012 off from Selling them but may have SG Dorkings back for 2013.

I just saw a post where Dick is selling Red and Silver Gray hatching eggs. I dont think I'm supposed to post that info publicly here so PM me if interested and I will get you the link

 

[fowlman01]

Walt,

From what I've seen , the ABA boys are letting a lot of very large Silkies , Cochins , and Brahmas through to win. Some are huge ! I mentioned ABA also in my post.

You are telling me to stay home, and breed these birds down , when all the guys are breeding them bigger and bigger to win ? Lots of luck with that notion . I'd loved to have been at the ON with a scale to weigh the Rocks who won . Maybe one day "Big Bird" of Sessame Street will win ! Must be a "Man thing" to want to have birds so huge , but it's not much fun showing if you haven't a chance at winning with a 10 lb bird.

I do agree , in the interest of fairness , in weighing all the birds in a variety if one is penalized , or DQd for weight , over or under . Feathers can be deceiving.

It's always a man thing..........

Judges...some judges actually read the SOP after they pass a test. The ABA has ongoing judges classes to refresh the judges, but it doesn't seem to be working in some areas. To be fair to judges ....we are not all butchers who can tell almost right on what something weighs when it is in our hand. What you see is not what you get. These British Orp look so fluffy that one would not think they weighed that much......on the other side...I have picked up bantam white Rock old hens and other bantams that feel like lead, but don't look it. I am sure they are over the DQ limit, but people looking into the cage would never suspect it. So......you can't tell by just looking what a bird really weighs when some of these birds place high. You can say with certainty that they look physically big, but in bantams the ones that look big are probably somewhat underweight.

People have been trying to breed to extremes forever......it kind of takes care of itself. The oversized birds break down and the cretin bantams only lay soft shelled eggs or whatever else mother natures throws at them to keep them off this planet.

You are a good breeder, so you can make your Orps whatever you like. They are beautiful birds.

Walt

 

[ronott1]

Quote:
That is great news!

 

[punk-a-doodle]

Thank you very much to you both! I am still in the holy-heck-which-heat-tolerant-breed-should-I-pick!?! researching phase, so I won't bug Dick Horstman at this time. Really good to know though that there are some solid breeders out there for single combed Dorkings. I'm kind of surprised they aren't more popular since they sound like they have many great qualities. Thanks again.

 

[3riverschick]

This is the knowledge on which I will stand in my Light Sussex breeding program.
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=coo.31924003137332#page/4/mode/1up
The author, William White Broomhead, one of three noted poultry brothers and a Sussex judge himself, went on to become President of the British Poultry Club. I have never run across a better explanation of the Light Sussex. Written back when the breed was both show champions and fab utility birds ( noted both for cramming and excellence in laying trials). If we are going to understand the mystery of breed type in these breeds, it's critical to study their history and origins. Classic essays like this one, by elite specialists in a breed, are so valuable to help us understand the nuances of a breed. Without understanding the nuances of a breed, it is extremely difficult to select for proper breed type on one's own.
This quality of essay on different poultry breeds exist on-line for free all over the Net. My three fav places to keyword search are : http://www.hathitrust.org/ ; http://books.google.com/advanced_book_search ;
http://archive.org/index.php .
But I digress. In Sussex, physical characteristics are an integral part of production virtues. Broomhead explains why the hen should be no more than 7 lbs. Why the bird should be close-feathered. To breed outside the Standard in Sussex is to move away from the production values for which the breed is famous. Really, to breed Light Sussex, one can have a huge library...however,... all one really needs is this article above. Plus,
the book "Sussex Fowl " by Sharpe; http://archive.org/details/cu31924003091398 .
Bratt's , "History of the Sussex " http://archive.org/details/historyofsussexf00brat
and the 1934 Outram reprint. They illustrated it with full size, full color prints from the Feathered World series. Just a stunning over-sized high quality glossy softcover with stiff high-quality full color wrap-around covers. In the back are reprints of the ultra-rare letters by breeders about Sussex gathered by Clem Watson. I could only find these letters listed in 2 of the world's libraries. Here's the website to Country Books : http://tinyurl.com/7jh6uzy
. Forget the Peter Smith "Sussex" book, they use different genes in Australia.
The point of all this is, I don't see the point in breeding the fowl unless one is going to stay true to the history and function of the fowl within the Standard of Perfection.
Best Success,
Karen
P.S. Yes, the Batty book is helpful too. Cheapest on eBay. He started out to write it about Dorkings but it quickly became about Sussex instead.