Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[Bluetick340]

Love the old school breeds. We have delawares, buckeyes, barred rocks, and welsumers that my girls showed this past year at the fair. We are looking to find some better genetics to grade up this next year. Will never own batam.... I don't think. Our chicken projects keep growing.

 

[3riverschick]

Are Light Sussex as tight feathered as some of the better Speckleds are that I have seen? ( Yes, they should be. Unfortunately, the Australian Light Sussex area all about size. That includes fluffy feathering which makes them look bigger. Incorrect to the APA SOP) I also wonder how this relates to Red Sussex for which I am not very familiar with? All the Sussex varieties should have the same close-feathering.

Merry Xmas Everyone

Not tight feathered, ...close-feathered. The entire Sussex breed is soft-feathered, and close-feathered.
Merry Christmas,
Karen

 

[Pozees]

eb is the locus for Brown. It means the bird's plumage coloring is painted in a Brown base. eWh is also a Brownish base. It means the bird's plumage is painted on this color base. But in both eb and eWh Columbian bids like Light Sussex and Light Brahma, , any brown is covered by black , plus removed and white is substituted instead.
In the case of a pure eb based bird and sometimes in the case of a heterozygous eb/eWh bird, there is a tendency for black stippling (splatters of small dots) to show up on the saddle feathers. However, in this flock, there is only one bird showing this black stippling. If it was a locus problem, more birds would be showing the stippling. Plus, the genetic history of these birds is known and there is no eb in it. So this is a pure eWh based Light Sussex showing the stippling.
In Sussex, and many other breeds, the kind and depth of coloring in the undercolor affects the color in the top feathers. I have cites for this but just not at hand. There are several articles in Google Books where noted authors discuss this and how to handle color balancing in the undercolor so the top feathers come out the correct color. Might try Lamon book on Mating and Breeding poultry. The Card book on breeding laws in archive.org. and others.
Merry Christmas,
Karen

Thanks - just started the Lamon book last week but had to set it aside for a few days, the Card book I just about finished but felt like I needed more context in order to understand it. This definitely helps, thanks!

 

[Arielle]

Quote: Took my kids about a week to make the transition to our own eggs . THey said: "they taste different!" Indeed they do, and even now in winter the yolks are orange. THe boys are still crabbing that I killed a favorite rooster--my patience had run out dealing with the rooster that attacked. THey are now afraid I will serve him up for dinner. Perhaps . . . THAT is the a answer--designate a roast as Raptor and see if THAT does the trick, if so I can apply that to a few other favorites that went into the freezer.

I see a number of "heritage" birds that interest me and the next 12 months will be a process of getting new stock and culling some other stock.

Honestly, I wish newbies started with old lines of birds. It would help the breeders that keep the old lines to have an outlet for chicks and culls. Most people just like a pretty bird to look at and a few eggs, high production is not an issue. I know when I was looking for chickens only the big hatcheries showed up as an option. It was only after reading on here for a year and a PM from a buckeye breeder that I learned OTHER chickens existed. Just my thinking out loud.

 

[Lacy Blues]

I know this sounds odd but for us initially the two issues were 1) having everyone understand that we raise them with care, not love-- you are what you eat (you love your pets and don't eat those), and 2) the visual difference of a bird that isn't all white breast. Even still I find myself looking at my processed birds asking myself if I should have waited longer to eat them. I have learned to look at their legs instead of the breast. I know this sounds very much like a joke, but really, I find that my meat birds have more leg than breast and it got me thinking about how the leg used to be a choice part where the breast is now. Its all just hypothesis.

That pic a while back of the Game hen with her chicks in the snow has really stuck in my brain-- especially as its been snowing today. Its got me thinking and I appreciate its being posted. So many facets to learning about chickens/nature/history.

You're comparing your heritage/home raised birds to the ones you find in the store... cornish crosses. They were bred to have the larger portion of breast meat... presumably because more people like that part. Not me. I like the thigh, the other is just too dry for my taste. However, with the Delawares I've been taking out, I've found that the breast meat here is not quite so dry!

Took my kids about a week to make the transition to our own eggs . THey said: "they taste different!" Indeed they do, and even now in winter the yolks are orange. THe boys are still crabbing that I killed a favorite rooster--my patience had run out dealing with the rooster that attacked. THey are now afraid I will serve him up for dinner. Perhaps . . . THAT is the a answer--designate a roast as Raptor and see if THAT does the trick, if so I can apply that to a few other favorites that went into the freezer.

I see a number of "heritage" birds that interest me and the next 12 months will be a process of getting new stock and culling some other stock.

Honestly, I wish newbies started with old lines of birds. It would help the breeders that keep the old lines to have an outlet for chicks and culls. Most people just like a pretty bird to look at and a few eggs, high production is not an issue. I know when I was looking for chickens only the big hatcheries showed up as an option. It was only after reading on here for a year and a PM from a buckeye breeder that I learned OTHER chickens existed. Just my thinking out loud.

My daughter did that to me for a few days before I lost it. I had to get in her face and tell her to get over it! Some birds are culled for the benefit of the flock and others are culled for the benefit of the family.

 

[Lacy Blues]

My wife bought eggs yesterday. We have three dozen brown and two dozen white in the refrigerator, but she is opposed to chickens on principle and refuses to eat homegrown eggs. Same for chickens I process. She has eaten our turkeys, but she's not real fond of them. Would rather have a flavorless Butterball. I'm going to try smoking some next year and see if that works better.

I don't understand the opposition to homegrown meat. It has more flavor, more texture, and a deeper connection than meat from the store.

If you ever fix breakfast for her... maybe you could slip in one homegrown egg among the others if you scramble. If you do it often, after a while, slip in two. Maybe she'll come around!

I guess I'm revealing the fact that I'm not above a little deceptive behavior at times... like mixing cows milk with goat milk because my husband thinks he doesn't like goats milk. Or mixing mashed turnips in with the mashed potatoes because I know he would say... "What is THAT!?" Forms his opinions on thin air sometimes!

What kind of egg production do your Andalusian hens have, Lacy Blues? I really like the looks of Andalusians and don't mind having white egg layers for variety. Some of the sites that advertise them say they lay about 150-200 per year. Are yours in that range or better? Just trying to get a feel for the breed. I don't want to dive in too soon. I want to get some experience under my belt with the Buckeyes and Hamburgs first before taking on something as difficult to maintain as Analusians (although I would love to have a couple to add to the yard because they are so handsome looking).

Actually, I haven't counted. I don't have trap nests (yet). Last year I had about 15 hens, and my daughter had about the same (in Golden Campines). I didn't count the eggs daily but I can tell you we were completely overrun with eggs! I think also, that the chick factories breed for egg production. That's fine if that's all you want them for. I'm trying to do that and more.

And I have to agree with you.... They are definitely handsome birds!

 

[Arielle]

Quote: I love the dark meat!! Kids like the white meat, so I'm happy and they are happy. I am searching for the best "heritage" meat bird-- buckeyes? Dels? rocks?

I had been talking to the boys about getting rid of that rooster for about a year. WIth a few stays of execution because of the tears. I finally had enough and said it was time to go and why. I miss him and they miss him--he was a notable bird, one of the first we raised, and he was a hoot. Raptor was dominating every other chick at 3 weeks old! He earned his name. ANd he protected his girls. HOWEVER, I do not miss looking out for attacks, I finally can relax walking outside; the relaxing part took weeks to adjust to. I will NEVER tolerate a bird that attacks.

 

[RattlesnakeRidgeWV]

Kathyinmo,
It took me some catching up but thanks for the videos. They were awesome! I love the old time stuff. That Lamon breeding book is a wealth of info who ever posted that, thanks again, very interesting reading.

 

[call ducks]

Quote: Thanks for the comments! But i can not take the credit for these stunning birds. these are the ones Emily Sent me this summer! At least i have a great start!

What do you mean by Superhackle?

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Nowadays, I don't think that talking about the "best" layers or the "best" meat birds is a reality. Historic claims for so many breeds are impressive, but ultimately it's not really about breeds but rather strains. Then, once one gets a hold of a good strain, only time will tell how that strain will fare. Egg production's only as good as any given generation, and if it's not being selected for, it will reduce.

Meat's the same, just different. At least with eggs, they're more or less about quantity, then there's egg size. With meat, there's fast meat, big meat, and good meat. But whatever claims the literature makes, their current veracity is dubious. Again, it's a question of constant selection, and proof is dependent on the strain above and beyond the claims made for the breed.

Then there's a further dilemma. So many breeds are lacking good strains that really resemble the standard, by which I means really represent the Standard. For breeders of these breeds, breeds that aren't possessed of strains that strongly approximate the Standard, there's the added rigor of needing to redirect to the standard.

For a bit of honesty, I don't think it can all be done at once. Through a sort of personal evolution, I've come to think that breeding to the Standard is the most important, at least for my program. By breeding to the Standard of a particular breed, a breeder will bring it closer to the production goal for which it is destined. Then, once a given strain is reproducing reliably, emphasis on production can come into play. I know that the last statement might sound contradictory to ultimate goals. Still if one is beginning with a bunch of underweight birds with horrible feather quality and squirrel tails and then one begins to select for egg-production straight off the bat, one, if selection is done along proper lines, is inevitably going to have to reserve for breeding birds that are far from the Standard. The result will be a strong laying strain of ugly birds, a.k.a. hatchery stock.

I think this is where the change of train of thought comes in. I think that it's not so much what we're going to get, but the question of where we're going to take it. For our path, the only way I've thus far figured out to do it is to be dedicated to a breed or a very small number of breeds over a long period of time.

Thus to anyone asking about which breed to get for this or that, I'd say just do the research into the various breeds and then choose one or two. I think that their past is only a directive; it's their future that is yet to be revealed.

However, what I would say is that it really does pay to get the absolute best stock possible. People seem to undervalue chickens. We buy expensive I-phones and what have you, but if a chick costs more than $5.00, we panic. Considering how much time I've invested into these White Dorking, and how much still remains, and considering how heritage birds are a much more secure long-term investment, I'd gladly pay $20.00/chick for the amount of time spent just getting them to this point.