Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[bnjrob]

I've had the best luck making connections at poultry shows. I met many of them first online but I don't think they really take us seriously until they see us doing the leg work and showing a sincere interest in working with the birds by showing up. Especially when they don't have huge numbers they are willing to part with. They want to make sure those they do part with are going into hands likely to take them seriously and keep working with them in a responsible way. That's been my experience, at any rate.

Unfortunatley, not everyone can go to poultry shows with work, lack of shows in their area, etc. I'm serious about my birds but I am not able to go to shows unless their are in my area. Many people work on weekends or have responsibilities that don't allow them to travel.

I do understand that there are some breeders that want to see and meet people before sharing (selling or giving) birds, but that isn't always going to be possible. If breeders truly want to make sure that their knowledge and their lines are passed on, they are going to have to make an effort to meet people (especially newbies with NO clue about things) where the people are and not expect that people will come to them because not everyone can or knows how to find the breeders.

 

[fowlman01]

Which reminds me, I subscribed to the Poultry Press before Thanksgiving, but haven't received my first copy. Should I contact them or continue to be patient-patience is not my strongest attribute

?
Angela

That would be up to you. You can email them and inquire.....but they are usually on top of their orders. You may have ordered in between issues.

Folks.....keep in mind that some of these top notch breeders don't own a computer. I personally don't raise a lot of birds and can't ship from this area, so if a person wants my birds they have to figure out how to get them.......which does not seem to be a problem to the people who really want some of mine. I have had people as far away of FL come by to buy birds. Most of the breeders I know are not in it to sell birds, so they don't produce a lot like a hatchery.

The mentality sometime is that we are like a store and should have a good inventory of birds for people who might buy something. My favorite comment is "I want one exactly like this one". Well....none of them are exactly alike...at least not when I look at them.

So.....some of the problem is low inventory and another is....and people don't think about this..........do I really want to sell a bird to some of the people who contact me? Some are extremely obnoxious and demanding. I enjoy helping people get started in poultry, but anyone reading this thread already knows how difficult some people are or can be. Just imagine selling that kind of person birds and what that would entail over a period of time. Breeders just don't want to deal with that kind of customer. Most breeders are not going to produce a bunch of extra birds for sale, but if a person is serious, they will find what they want. If a person can find good Catalana's they can find anyhthng.

Walt

The folks that really want a breed will find them. Join one of the national clubs, go to shows and you will have much more success than searching on BYC.

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Quote:
I'm a newbie. Started researching online, joined clubs from there just as Walt suggests, and then meeting people at shows and making connections from there. It's been my experience that there are enough people that can get out, join the clubs, and make it to the shows, to keep the breeders happy. In fact, it can be a real challenge to get a hold of quality stock because there are enough new people out there wanting in. Making that effort also demonstrates an ability and willingness to learn. The top breeders certainly don't have to go looking to find folks. Interested folks will find them and will come to them.

 

[Lacy Blues]

Karen Thankyou for posting the pictures of super hackle. I'm assuming this translated to any Columbian breed including Wyandotte. Does this disqualify a bird or cause a point reduction?
Lacy blues, Since Andalusion and Minorca are often mentioned together as similar size, would egg laying also be similar. My five Minorcas lay 3to 5 eggs a day in peak laying season. When it gets colder and the nights shorter 5 to 10 eggs per week.
Fred, I hope you are right about where we will be in five years. My Columbian Wyandotte flock is small...beginning with five hens and a rooster. Now i am up to 7 hens to 1 rooster and I hatch about 25 eggs per season. I have offered two trios for one of our local BYC state get-together a...one for our fundraiser auction and one for sale. This year I am aiming for 50 -75 hatch from this pen which besides the 7 CW also includes 2 nice Black Wyandotte and 1 Blue.
Again this year I will raise chicks to juvenile stage before selecting the keepers because the Wyandotte is a slow maturing breed. That is another reason why chicks may not be available from small breeders.

I'd say that those numbers are probably pretty close.

 

[Robert Blosl]

Quote:
Hate to say it to you....but if englands climate is like NS they do not need it. We get have humid air because we live not far from the bay... Take a look at the Chantecler that was devloped to stand Canada's climate (more so quebec region) and it is not this Huge fluffly bird. It is a relitivly tight feather bird.

I evney the people out west... Because they have DRY snow. We have really damp and heavy snow.... That's fun to shovel

Quote:

Pages 164 and 165

Acclimation of Fowls.
Mr. E. W. S., of Charleston, 8. C, writes: "lam a reader of The Poultry World, but never have purchased fowls from the north, as I have always heard, and it is the general opinion here, I believe, that fowls brought from northern localities cannot stand our climate. Is there any means of acclimating fowls; if so, can you refer me to some means of so doing?"

It is undoubtedly true that fowls require acclimation, when removed from a cold to a warm climate or vice versa, and we can easily understand that if the removal is unseasonable that trouble and loss might ensue. Yet it is perfectly easy to satisfy any one that the difficulties are greatly exaggerated, and that the loss need be extremely small or reduced to a point where it absolutely ceases. We are constantly importing into this country fowls from abroad, England, France and Italy, and little or no loss results therefrom. Their systems may receive a greater or less shock according to the difference in the climate of their native and their adopted homes, but the shock does not prevent them from breeding successfully. In some cases it certainly stimulates the reproductive organs, and the fowls for a few generations lay more eggs in their adopted than they did in their native home.
If our southern brethren desire to purchase fowls from northern breeders they should not hesitate to do so. The best time is in the autumn months, and the fowls removed from a colder to a warmer climate are, or ought to be, grateful for the change. By the time that summer with its excessive heat arrives they have become somewhat accustomed to the new climate and very little trouble need be apprehended. Even the heavily-feathered Asiatics do well in the south.
We shou'd not advise the purchase of birds north in the months of June and July, for they would doubtless suffer somewhat from the longer-continued and more excessive heat of the south. This would have a debilitating effect and render them much more subject to attacks of disease and less able to successfully withstand them. But if they are purchased at any time from September to January we think that they will do well. The "general opinion" to the contrary may be a mere prejudice or it may be founded upon a few cases of unseasonable introduction of fowls, but we seriously question whether it has any substantial reason for existing. At any rate, we do not hesitate to advise our querist to purchase such fowls as he may desire of northern breeders.
===========================================
Karen, interesting read. ANd I know Bob has been clear that birds will adapt given at least three years. Though I should ask him -- oh Boooooobbbbbbbbbb--is that generations or the same birds.

I personally moved from coastal Maine to the RI border and I have NOT adapted after 25 years. This is still too hot for me in the summers.

If I am understanding everyone, the birds generally adapt. Managing the birds during long bouts of rain may take a different management style. Hmmmm. . .
There years and three generations. If taking birds from St Louis and having them shipped down here during different months means anything with the heat and humidity I dont know. Most people have birds chicks or eggs ship ed to them in the spring as that's the time breeders have their pens put together. In the case of the Golden Sebrite bantams sent down here from St Louis Mo. they never feat herd or matured with a darn but once they got back to their home land and yards of St Louis in 90 days one female reversed her horrible appearance then turned into the champion she was suppose to be. Her parents and grandparents where great breeding show birds so should she and her brother and sisters as the blood was there.

My question is does the change of altitude, heat and humidity, feed, water, weather mutate the gens, or the genetic rate and give the person who got the bird from someone 600 miles away a different bird.? If you pick the best six birds out of 25 you get put them in the breeding pen then raise 50 chicks from them then select the top six birds again over three to four years your birds that you have should adjust to your climate, feed water ect and you are off to the races. So many throw their hands up in the air and give up. They dont give the birds a chance. I guess most people feel that if they did good in Georgia for 20 years they should do fantastic in Minn right off the Bat. My white Rocks in Minn went through three years of split wings be for they leveled off.

The owner kept choosing birds that had good wings and in three years it was over. One guy in Texas got birds from Wisconsin and Delaware area. His cross of the birds gave him split tails. He gave up the cross and the birds from out of the area. I often wondered if he got a strain of line breed Barred Rocks from a friend of mine in Ohio and breed them in Texas for three years if he would have a nice strain adjusted to his climate. Many think I am all wet on this climate issue and getting birds from a different region. However, I seen the results after two to three years. So many where not happy with their results. WHY???

In my case with swapping Rhode Island Reds with Dennis Meyers 20 years ago we both thought each others birds look like scrubs but we knew that we had good strains as we say videos of our birds each year for three years. He had the top line in the mid west and I had the top line in the South and they came from the same owner in Georgia Mr. Reese. Its not a matter what month to ship the bird that they will look like there brothers and sisters say in St Louis but they never look like those birds even if the owner send you 25 chicks each month all year long. However, if you just roll up your sleeves and make selections of the top birds given to you and invest three or four years into the program you will sort of turn the gene pool around and your birds will look much like the master breeders who you got your birds from who lives many miles away.

Here is another wild thing happening in climate change. A master breeder has a great strain of large fowl. He send you 25 chicks and you raise them in your yard. You then send him pictures of your chicks you raised from his chicks and the males are better than the females. You go to a show and your male wins champion large fowl. Yet at his home say in Indiana he wins with females and never produced a male that looks like your males raised 800 miles away in the South. In my case. My White Leghorn bantams turned from a female line to a male line. My males are so superior to the fellow I got my start from. He would have given $500 for a male like mine. I produce them year in and year out. Yet after breeding this line where he lived he always won with females and not males. WHY?

The video that you watched back in the 1940s showed the poultry plant buildings and these are also the buildings that they had the ROP egg laying contests in. Ten females shipped by the breeder and for one year they counted the eggs lay ed. However, these contest went down the toilet as the breeds got more high in production and less towards being true to breed. Those chickens in the movie shown where not good quality New Hampshire's com paired to what Ken Bowl-es had in New York. Great thing to look at however.

Kick the can down the road some more this thread is going into the third year. Thanks to all who promote and talk about old breeds of poultry form 1950 back. bob

In regards to Reds handling Rain. They can handle any weather. They can roost up in trees when its snowing the heat in the south that is the make up of the breed that made them so good. They may have to ajust from the south to the north over time but in a few years they will do just fine.

 

[Marengoite]

The eggs I definitely don't understand; if buying eggs produced by battery-housed hens is okay, why would it not be better to use eggs produced by well cared for hens that see sunlight, breathe fresh air, and are fed well? Better for the hens, and better for the humans consuming them - and I must say, fluffier than any grocery store eggs I ever used. Just one very humble opinion. The more hens we each keep whose eggs we consume and sell to/share with our neighbors, the fewer hens will have to live less comfortable lives. I get the issue of eating a chicken you've raised, I live with someone who still prefers the arm's length consumption model, but am hoping to convert him in the coming months.

I think it's just sheer stubbornness. She doesn't want chickens on the place and refuses to eat eggs of my raising. She's been more than happy to eat fresh eggs given to us by her friend. But the kids don't really care and they eat plenty of farm-raised eggs in everything.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: Forgive me as my limited knowledge is mostly book learning and horses . . . In horses and other livestock the genetic influence is calculated using a factor called heritability. THe ability to inherit the trait genetically. The interesting part is that this is reported as a fraction, not a whole number. Genes + envronment = phenotype.

THree years to select from those that show the best ability to thrive in the new environment.

 

[Marengoite]

If you ever fix breakfast for her... maybe you could slip in one homegrown egg among the others if you scramble. If you do it often, after a while, slip in two. Maybe she'll come around!

I guess I'm revealing the fact that I'm not above a little deceptive behavior at times... like mixing cows milk with goat milk because my husband thinks he doesn't like goats milk. Or mixing mashed turnips in with the mashed potatoes because I know he would say... "What is THAT!?" Forms his opinions on thin air sometimes!

Actually, I haven't counted. I don't have trap nests (yet). Last year I had about 15 hens, and my daughter had about the same (in Golden Campines). I didn't count the eggs daily but I can tell you we were completely overrun with eggs! I think also, that the chick factories breed for egg production. That's fine if that's all you want them for. I'm trying to do that and more.

And I have to agree with you.... They are definitely handsome birds!

They go into recipes. Best eggnog I've had was some I made this year with fresh eggs. However, I'm the only one in the family that likes eggnog, soooooo.......

The Hamburg eggs are easy to spot in the store containers because they're so much smaller than the store eggs. I was thinking that Andalusian eggs would be more likely to fool her. And yes, I'm not above a little deception either. Like you, I'm not interested in commercial level production, but at the same time, I would like to get something for my feed bill besides eye candy in the yard. Although the eye candy is nice....

 

[Marengoite]

I love the dark meat!! Kids like the white meat, so I'm happy and they are happy. I am searching for the best "heritage" meat bird-- buckeyes? Dels? rocks?

I had been talking to the boys about getting rid of that rooster for about a year. WIth a few stays of execution because of the tears. I finally had enough and said it was time to go and why. I miss him and they miss him--he was a notable bird, one of the first we raised, and he was a hoot. Raptor was dominating every other chick at 3 weeks old! He earned his name. ANd he protected his girls. HOWEVER, I do not miss looking out for attacks, I finally can relax walking outside; the relaxing part took weeks to adjust to. I will NEVER tolerate a bird that attacks.

Cornish (purebred, not the heritage fowl) will provide a nice carcass for you. If I were going primarily for meat, I would probably do a "Heritage Cornish Cross" like what was posted in the videos. Have a cornish cock cover a NH or Buckeye hen and I would think (although I've not done such a cross) you would get some nice meat chicks without the sexual dimorphism of the other breeds and a nice meaty little carcass at about 12-16 weeks. Still not as fast as a commercial broiler chicken, but also less likely to have broken legs and heart attacks.

 

[Texasmja]

Unfortunatley, not everyone can go to poultry shows with work, lack of shows in their area, etc. I'm serious about my birds but I am not able to go to shows unless their are in my area. Many people work on weekends or have responsibilities that don't allow them to travel.

I do understand that there are some breeders that want to see and meet people before sharing (selling or giving) birds, but that isn't always going to be possible. If breeders truly want to make sure that their knowledge and their lines are passed on, they are going to have to make an effort to meet people (especially newbies with NO clue about things) where the people are and not expect that people will come to them because not everyone can or knows how to find the breeders.

I have some quality birds coming this year finally. I will do my best to breed and share as many of these as I can with others, because I know how hard it is to get them. If more people around me have quality birds and know what they look like, then they will be less apt to order hatchery birds. Nothing against hatchery birds, I have ordered them out of frustration of not being able to get any from a breeder and just wanted some so bad I was willing to take a gamble. And I think hatcheries are successful because there is not enough supply of good quality birds available.