Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[Pozees]

Do you know how easy you have it? Where I am, with all the rock, clay, and caliche (natural concrete!), a post hole takes me hours. First I have to soak the soil (such that it is) really deep so the pick axe and digging bar don't just bounce off the surface. The inexpensive landscape poles the termites will eat in no time. And zip ties last about 6 months in the sun here, if I'm lucky. The sun eats up anything that is not metal. Add to that all the bobcats, coyotes, Great Horned owls, and hawks and putting up a new pen here is a major undertaking, both time-wise and expense.

Right there with you LOL. I have a layer of dust on top you don't have (yet) but go a few inches down and the dust is hard clay littered with shale - sometimes little pieces, sometimes large shelves of it. When we built our house the surveyor told us if we wanted a full basement it would mean going through a large layer of shale about 4' down. We have a 4' crawl space as a result. In hindsight, the investment would probably have paid off, but as I often say, hindsight is 20/20

Soaking is the ONLY way to get a shovel into the "soil" here. When it rains two days in a row I rush around with posts trying to get them into the ground before it dries up when I have something I want to fence. I'm praying we have such an event this (well, next) year so I can fence off the vegetable garden. Last year (spring/summer 2012), no such opportunity.

 

[Chris09]

Charlie,
I wouldn't go to much off them "codes" all of them are missing a key Gene.
Now I don't know where Van Dort and Handcock got there Reds they used for there "test" but U.S. Reds carry the Columbian Gene [Co]

Chris
=================
A combination of genes can mimick Co. I think that's what is going on in the formula Van Dort posted in her book.
Best,
Karen

But we know that a Columbian fowl [most likely from Brahma [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Fowl] [/FONT]was used in the "making" of the Rhode Island Red.



Quote from The Rhode Island Red Chronicles
This "code" was from Henk's sight and there is more different ones out there.


Quote:

Chris

 

[Chris09]

That was mentioned on the thread I gave you the link to ....

Not all RIRs are created equally ... if you wish to change the flavour of the soup, you have to know what went into the soup which is why, more often than not, you have to work with the genetics person one on one.

I know that not all Red are the same I'v been saying that for years.


Chris

 

[3riverschick]

At the end what we have is a Rhode Island Red that has become entirely a rich red with black pigmentation left only in the tail and on one side of the wing feathers and some black ticking remaining at the base of the hens hackles.
===================
Doesn't Co leave color in the hackle of both sexes? In certain situations, Mh and Db can act as black restrictors. Could they have used those to put black in the hens neck only?
http://www.the-coop.org/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=107033
Karen

 

[3riverschick]

Genetic explanation for differences in expression of black in Light Brahma and Light Sussex
Taken from "Coop" thread I posted earlier.

"Notice too that with wheaten based columbian males with neck hackle striping that there is less saddle hackle striping than with eb based columbian (eg, differences between Light Sussex (eWh) & Light Brahma(eb) ).
Plus differences with undercolour (eWh light, eb darker).
Note - some Brahma lines are segregating eWh too (R. Okimoto -DNA tested, plus obvious in some European lines). The British & Australian Standards note these differences in phenotypes (male saddle & undercolour).
but Mh has been found by the Author(see links I posted) and if Mh is in there you know some kind of diluter has to be too to even out the red color to an orange color"
Best,
Karen

 

[Marengoite]

I am a newbie & I live in a town where I can only have 6 hens and no roosters. I have the hens for the eggs & the experience. Some day I hope to move to the country where I can have more & a rooster. I have hatchery heritage breed but I am ok with that. I have learned so much in the last 6 months from the OT's that I am confident when I move I will be better prepared to start with some better stock but I am just as content with mutts

I agree with Fred's Hens with a caveat. I agree that the city folk who are just getting started need exactly that. And it's good to see armorfirelady having a good experience following the plan.

However, I think there is a middle ground. I'd helped my kids raise turkeys for three years for 4H before we got into chickens. So I had a notion of what was involved in brooding and raising poultry to market. I'd also taken them in for processing as well as hanging out in the poultry barn and learning a lot from folks before we ever got our first chicken. It also helps that we are surrounded with people who keep chickens so there is no end to the good advice, guidance, and just general sharing of information that goes around in the country. So, there is a middle way, but I'm afraid it's not available to everyone or even most people.

And the reason is because people don't talk to their neighbors. I have been known on many occasions to just pull into a driveway and strike up a conversation with a perfect stranger over their livestock or whatever. On Thanksgiving day the farmer across the street was cutting corn, so I walked over and asked him if he wanted to sell me any corn out of the field. We struck up a price and when he was done and turning the combine toward home, he pulled into my driveway first and filled up a 55 gallon barrel with corn for $20. Win-win all around. I got field fresh corn delivered at less than half what I'd pay for it at the mill. Granted, it needs to dry out and I have to crack it myself, but still. It was a sweet deal, all for the price of an easy conversation.

I like the idea of poultry clubs, but I'm not that formal of a guy and I'm not sure about committing to regular meetings and stuff. I'd much rather stroll out in a muddy field or a drop by a milking parlor and have a casual conversation. Maybe drop off a dozen eggs while I'm doing it. But if folks aren't that forward, then sure, go ahead and join a club, attend meetings, and get your experience in a formal setting. It's just that you don't have to do it that way if clubs aren't available in your area.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

But we know that a Columbian fowl [most likely from Brahma [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Fowl] [/FONT]was used in the "making" of the Rhode Island Red.




This "code" was from Henk's sight and there is more different ones out there.




Chris

I've never thought about that before. That's rather cool to place it in that framework.

 

[Hangtown Farms]

@Copper12

I do see a big challenge to keep the Buckeyes & Icelandics completely apart but I have mtn land w/ several "fingers" & based on the forage patterns of other birds over the past 6 yrs I think it can be done, & if not my fallback plan (b/c I _always _ have a plan B) will be alternate days to free-range w/ fodder yr round on pen days.

Do yours return at night to roost in the pens?
That would be the main issue, they must return for lockup at night to be safe! ...

Thanks for your thoughts on this, I'm excited about the Icelandic specifically for their wild ways & b/c my could-care-less-about-poultry DH actutally pointed this breed out to me (he is of Icelandic ancestry so they became a must-have, plus I get to have pretty multi-colored birds w/o worry that I'll mess up breeding b/c of colors, oh, & I might finally have eggs in winter, just all plus plus plus).

I'm a frenzy of excitement to be at long last taking this huge step in 2013

FeyRaine

Icelandic's are great. They come back now but at first liked the trees best. They are a hardy easy to keep breed.

 

[Chris09]

Found a neat article on color mutations in the Rhode Island Red that talked about a odd "mutation" color called a "Red-Splash White".
Thought I would pass it on http://www.ias.ac.in/jarch/jgenet/29/75.pdf

Below are pictures of the birds--

Chris

 

[Robert Blosl]

Let me tell you I read all of the stuff about genetics and the codes tonight and it kind of reminded me of the master breeders who won big at the shows I attended when I was a kid at the Oregon State Fair in Salem in the 1960s. We had big large fowl shows over 1,000 birds and maybe 600 bantams and 200 waterfowl. The top breeders from Calif to Washington came and we would sit down in a big table in the middle of the Poultry Show and look up at all the bird on Champion Row. None of the old men and women I interviewed as a kid where into genetics. They new the laws of breeding color on their breeds. They won year in and year out and I would love to see those sole called genetic experts if their birds get on Champion Row. When you talk about Heritage Chickens this was the Poultry Palace of large fowl. There was no hatchery looking chickens in this show. They scored high on the point jading scale if they where judged that way.

Today we have so many breeds like the ones that I saw in the early 1960s who need help. Regardless if you get your start from a hatchery and want to main tain that style of breed or try to improve them is your business. If you want to go to a show like Lucas ville or Columbus Ohio and look at all the good large fowl that look like the ones I saw as a kid thats great to.

You dont need to get a whole bunch of chickens and hatch 100 of them to get ten good birds. If you go out and buy the very best that are not mixed in strains or lines from two other breeders you can hatch 40 to 50 chicks and get a good selection to maintain or improve your breed that you wish to keep.

Many who want to convert from production hatchery chickens do not have a lot of space or even money to help out but for the sake of the breed they keep and try to improve them if they can but it is not necessary. I am going to adopt a male and two females in a very rare rare breed they are called Mottled Javas. One of the most complicated color pattern you can take on. I have over 40 years of breeding chickens and never saw one in my life. I just want to get them to expand in numbers maybe four males and eight females. Then if I can farm them out to a hobbies who just wants a male and two females they can be part of my buddy system. Maybe I will find a mother and a 14 year daughter who can raise ten chicks for me and then get the girl in a 4H club and get her to show her Javas she raised at a local or state fair. Maybe I can get her into show man ship contest which many kids enjoy doing. It gives them courage to talk to a judge and helps them if they have to get in front of a class in school or in church.

We need to get back to the basics of Preserving old breeds of poultry and not get to big or involved with charts or breed codes. If we dont we will drive these people back over to the commerical side of the fence and they will be as happy as a pig in slop with their scrubs and 99 % of the people on this board do. We are trying to help the one half of one percent out there who want to try to preserve these old breeds. Lets keep it simple for their sake. I have been guilty of maybe trying to get these people to become master breeders of a breed or get in voled in showing their birds.

If they want to they will and thats just about all we can do.

In regards to the codes of R I Reds how in the H...l can you tell me the code of my Rhode Island Red bantams after I shrunk them down from large fowl over the last 30 years. In color I never spent one hour worrying about their color. It just came along for the ride as I was dwarfing them down from 7 pound females to two pound bantam females. The color is their if the genes are there. I am a gene hunter and not a gentic hunter. I look for old birds that are in my germ plasma of my strain that helped produce my great strain which is now in the original large fowl over 100 years old.

Enough on this. I hope we can get back to the basics of finding breeds for those interested and try to get you guys to learn how to run incubators and reproduce your young chicks next year.

Some people need practice on Hatchery Chickens in just rearing them. Once you get good at it then take on some of these rare breeds. That's what we got to learn how to do.

I saw a picture of a incubator when I came on here tonight the Geneious from Georgia Quail Company. If you want to give someone a heck of a Christmas present that is a good incuabator to buy and own. Its is also a great hatcher. That's it for me. Charlie did you get my emails I sent you about the pens? Bill will take some pictures tomorrow of your R I Red Cock bird you sent me.

KISS.