Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[3riverschick]

On the contrary, I was trying to stress the importance of keeping the foundation breeds of Standard Poultry pure. By foundation breeds, I mean the Dorking and others like it, which are so old that their origin- how they were bred in the first place- is not known.

I was surprised and disappointed that other breeders feel that crossbreeding a foundation breed of Standard poultry is acceptable, for any reason. I'm struggling with my Dorkings to bring them back to standard, so it's not like I don't know what you all are saying. There are no good Dorkings out there. But, I won't crossbreed in another breed because I wouldn't consider the offspring purebred.

And if every breeder has been crossbreeding them all along, what's the point of breeding them at all? That's not preserving the original foundation breed. That's creating a composite breed.

Hi Kim,
Thanks for re-stating this. Now I understand what you were saying. Good points. How about crossing the Dorkings back to Sussex? Typey Sussex, that is. Emily Robertson in Vancouver is using population genetics on her flocks to bring back their utilitarian virtues with good success. I know she can bring eggs and birds to the States. Maybe something there for you?
She has Light Sussex they would cross ok with Silver Grey Dorkings, wouldn't they?
I know she hatches 100's of chicks a year. Maybe she has some that are set lower to the ground which she doesn't need but might be a help to the Dorkings? With that many chicks, one is likely to get some small number of chicks whose stature is at both the ends of the spectrum.

Karen

 

[thedragonlady]

On the contrary, I was trying to stress the importance of keeping the foundation breeds of Standard Poultry pure. By foundation breeds, I mean the Dorking and others like it, which are so old that their origin- how they were bred in the first place- is not known.

I was surprised and disappointed that other breeders feel that crossbreeding a foundation breed of Standard poultry is acceptable, for any reason. I'm struggling with my Dorkings to bring them back to standard, so it's not like I don't know what you all are saying. There are no good Dorkings out there. But, I won't crossbreed in another breed because I wouldn't consider the offspring purebred.

And if every breeder has been crossbreeding them all along, what's the point of breeding them at all? That's not preserving the original foundation breed. That's creating a composite breed.

I brought imported English blood back into the SOP Buff Orpingtons this

year. Here is a photo of a TEN WEEK old trio that I shipped off this week...... Please compare the pullet on the right with my avatar. She is just a baby without her main tail yet, but the shape/ type is the same. She will be spectacular at 1 year old. The predictabliity of SOP birds who are well bred, in living color.

Love to hear your input guys !

 

[Marengoite]

To work with andalusians you would only go outside the breed , but not the class when necessary, most pure breeds that are acquired are from commercial hatcheries, these are bred for volume and production (what good is a breeding pen that doesnt produce alot of eggs) but to achieve this and one of the consequences of flock breeding is smaller size, loss of certain type (in accordance to the APA and book of standard perfection) . If all you want is a blue andalusian , by all means go buy some from a hatchery they will look fine...but dont go to a large show and expect to win with a hatchery bird .

It depends on what you mean by "looks fine." If you don't want lacing at all and aren't fussy about conformation, hatchery birds "look fine." Otherwise, I didn't know Andalusians were supposed to be laced until I came on this list. All I'd seen is powder blue hatchery birds.

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

I had never seen an Andalusian without lacing until I looked on the internet! It completely blew my mind knowing what they were supposed to look like and then finding out what most people thought.

 

[NYREDS]

On the contrary, I was trying to stress the importance of keeping the foundation breeds of Standard Poultry pure. By foundation breeds, I mean the Dorking and others like it, which are so old that their origin- how they were bred in the first place- is not known.

I was surprised and disappointed that other breeders feel that crossbreeding a foundation breed of Standard poultry is acceptable, for any reason. I'm struggling with my Dorkings to bring them back to standard, so it's not like I don't know what you all are saying. There are no good Dorkings out there. But, I won't crossbreed in another breed because I wouldn't consider the offspring purebred.

And if every breeder has been crossbreeding them all along, what's the point of breeding them at all? That's not preserving the original foundation breed. That's creating a composite breed.

Dorkings didn't go on the ark with Noah, they were developed by selection & crossing of other birds. The same is true of all the other breeds of poultry. Yes, these various breeds breed true & have become what we think of as "pure" breeds. What then is the harm in back crossing to a breed used in developing the breed in question in order to strengthen or reestablish a desired trait.
The strain of Andalusians I recently acquired had begun to lose some size. The developer of the strain crossed Minorcas in a few generations back to increase size. Both are Mediterranean breeds & it's likely that Minorcas or something similar was used in developing Andalusians. The cross worked. The birds are up to size now & it's been long enough that the type is back where it belongs. As far as I'm concerned these birds are Andalusians. They appear to be Andalusians, they breed true to type & judges accept them as Andalusians so how was this cross a problem?

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

I have to agree. And seeing as how the Minorca, maybe it's just me, is so similar to the Andalusian the overall type would not vary that much. I know many have used Australorps to increase production in the Orpington and Orpington to increase the size and feather width of the Australorp.

I see no issue in crossing with a bird that was once used to create the breed. These breeds were used in order to create the bird, so what better way to instill the original purpose of the bird than to breed that specific trait back into the birds to make it show up more prevalently?

 

[imtrying]

because it's an integrity issue. that is the problem. i'm not going to debate it. i fully believe all know what is being said and some are justifying/rationalizing. it's cool. do your thing. it's blatantly obvious what that thing is.

i'm glad you all are talking about this, and different folks are weighing in on the topic. now everyone knows what you're up to.

oh, internet - - must you keep everything forever?

 

[OSUman]

White Faced Black Spanish

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

because it's an integrity issue. that is the problem. i'm not going to debate it. i fully believe all know what is being said and some are justifying/rationalizing. it's cool. do your thing. it's blatantly obvious what that thing is.

i'm glad you all are talking about this, and different folks are weighing in on the topic. now everyone knows what you're up to.

oh, internet - - must you keep everything forever?

I don't really see why you are trying to pick a fight by calling several long time breeders out on something that is common knowledge? Well, I had thought it was common knowledge.

If the breed is supposed to have a trait and that trait is lost, why lose that trait forever when you can fix the problem with a simple addition of a breed that was used to create that trait in the first place? After so many generations, that trait is re-embedded and will breed true once more.

Ah well. I'm hopping out of the sandbox.

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

White Faced Black Spanish

Very cool Jon! When did you get this little gal!