Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[HallFamilyFarm]

Quote:

 

[Spangled]

Dorkings didn't go on the ark with Noah, they were developed by selection & crossing of other birds. The same is true of all the other breeds of poultry.

Since you brought it up, if it wasn't Dorkings with Noah, which "breeds" were? Were all 7 pairs the same breed? Or were there 7 different breeds? Maybe just 14 random chickens? They would have been domesticated chickens, right? Since there had been over a 1000 years of history prior to Noah's cruise. People are people, so maybe they had already created a few breeds?

 

[kathyinmo]

WOO HOO ! ! ! Thank you so much, Bill! I will treasure it!

 

[cgmccary]

Dorkings didn't go on the ark with Noah, they were developed by selection & crossing of other birds. The same is true of all the other breeds of poultry. Yes, these various breeds breed true & have become what we think of as "pure" breeds. What then is the harm in back crossing to a breed used in developing the breed in question in order to strengthen or reestablish a desired trait.
The strain of Andalusians I recently acquired had begun to lose some size. The developer of the strain crossed Minorcas in a few generations back to increase size. Both are Mediterranean breeds & it's likely that Minorcas or something similar was used in developing Andalusians. The cross worked. The birds are up to size now & it's been long enough that the type is back where it belongs. As far as I'm concerned these birds are Andalusians. They appear to be Andalusians, they breed true to type & judges accept them as Andalusians so how was this cross a problem?

I agree with capavalleychick. Thank goodness when the ALBC was recovering the Buckeye, they did not take short cuts and cross breed to increase the size of the breed. Instead, they did it the old fashioned way: HATCH A LOT OF BUCKEYE CHICKS, CULL AND SELECT. In three years, they increased the average weight of the Buckeye a pound and a half. IMHO, yes, one could recreate a composite breed, of course, like the Buckeye. It would look like a Buckeye. Would it be the original? No. The strains of Barred Rock and Buff Cochin and the Black Breasted Game (that Metcalf later said, "I know now that they had been crossed with Cornish blood and there is where I got my pea comb and Game shape.")- those strains and lines of those breeds, even if they could be discerned- could not be obtained to TRULY remake the breed-. Sure, you'd have something that fit the SOP, but there are other characteristics that go to make a breed other than its appearance alone.

 

[fowlman01]

If my understanding is correct, the Dorking is a foundational breed, and the Sussex a derivative breed, so cappayvalley has a legitimate point in avoiding outcrossing to "improve" her chosen breed. However, Kathyinmo is using the original foundation breeds to re-create the derivative Delaware breed, so her situation seems very different to me.
Just my opinion,
Angela

The Dorking can be traced back to the time of Julius Caesar, so it is a foundation breed.

Walt

 

[fowlman01]

WOO HOO ! ! ! Thank you so much, Bill! I will treasure it!

Two great publications. The APA will be taking parts of the Plymouth Rock Standard and republishing them as booklets. A lot of the info in that Standard is still valid. Great score Kathy.

Walt

 

[galanie]

What I'm getting from all this is that some are purists and some are not. The Purist will not use another breed to improve theirs. Most others will.

In the case of thedragonlady, she didn't put in another breed but rather used one bred to another standard, albeit nearly the same as ours. Except that blood has not been let go smaller to increase egg laying. My opinion only here. Those buffs make me swoon.

 

[mschlumb]

The Self Blue, as the SOP calls it, was first accepted in the 1960's in Old English. Thus is a Heritage color in that breed. Orpingtons are a heritage breed. Self Blue is just a newer color. The Self Blue Old English is a Heritage Breed!

However, it was the breeding method I was pointing out, not the breed/color.

Self Blue Old English
​

I didn't think that the "heritage" definition was variety specific. Only breed specific, otherwise you're cutting some varieties from the umbrella of "heritage" marketing and if the goal is genetic preservation why would the albc pick and choose which are worthy of preservation and which ones aren't? Granted some varieteis are more rare than others. I don't know maybe i'm wrong.

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

Two great publications. The APA will be taking parts of the Plymouth Rock Standard and republishing them as booklets. A lot of the info in that Standard is still valid. Great score Kathy.

Walt

That is a very neat thing to do! Kathy, LOVE that you were able to find those! What an interesting way to hold onto the history of the breed!

 

[OSUman]

Thats AWESOME Kathy!!!

WOO HOO ! ! ! Thank you so much, Bill! I will treasure it!