Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[Narragansett]

This is quite possibly the truth. Americans have a love affair with things that are currently in vogue. Trouble is, when the current vogue changes which it surely will then Americans will change too. They are chaff driven by the wind.

Absolutely. The American education system, and I use the term loosely, is creating a generation who expects that their failures, problems, issues and inabilities will be catered to by others. There is no personal accountability anymore, no sense of working hard to overcome any obstacles, no idea of quality in anything, in the poultry world as well the world in general. It's all about people's feelings and emotions, worrying about what PC term to use that will not "offend" anyone. Everyone is worried about what the next popular electronic gadget will be, or which "rare" breed of poultry will be discovered by people who never heard of it because they never bothered to open a book before the internet came around.

 

[fowlman01]

I talked to every breeder I could find that has show quality birds. One tried to sell me a trio that looked no where near the SOP, I guess being new to a breed meant I was ignorant to what a quality bird looked like. I gracefully declined and said it wasn't what I was looking for. Another told me to contact her in a month, which I did, told me to contact her in the fall, which I did, then decided that she would only sell to people she knows. Another breeder, has decided to not breed anymore. Two other breeders are APA, ABA judges were wonderful to talk to, answered questions, offered advice, and yes they both are shipping me chicks in 2013. I am grateful that these two longtime breeders are willing to send me quality birds.

Your definition of breeder and mine are probably quite different. Most real breeders of any exhibition fowl know each other or have heard of each other.....then there are the people who say they are breeders.........they are the ones giving the real breeders a bad name. If they are calling themselves a breeder and you as a novice can tell that the bird is not up to APA specs.......well.........I just can't call that person a breeder. They are just people who are turning out birds for profit.

It is good to hear nice things about the two real breeders though.

Walt

 

[Narragansett]

Don't worry about it at all. The Point System is not used in America any longer at Poultry Shows regardless of what the Standard states.

Birds are judged by comparison today and not by points.

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by the point system, but the schedule of points that is listed in the Standards is indeed still used by a lot of judges today.

 

[Texasmja]

Your definition of breeder and mine are probably quite different. Most real breeders of any exhibition fowl know each other or have heard of each other.....then there are the people who say they are breeders.........they are the ones giving the real breeders a bad name. If they are calling themselves a breeder and you as a novice can tell that the bird is not up to APA specs.......well.........I just can't call that person a breeder. They are just people who are turning out birds for profit.

It is good to hear nice things about the two real breeders though.

Walt

They all show in APA shows and breed.

 

[Zanna]

I have been trying to keep up with this thread for the last couple of weeks. It seems to have kicked into overdrive. I don't post a lot but I want to kick my to cents in. I don't know if it will help anyone understand any of this any better but here goes.
As far as the term "Heritage" goes...it means many different things to different people. To some it means Non Hatchery pure bred birds as they were intended to be by the originators of each breed. There is no disputing that what the hatcheries sell are poor representations of what these breeds were originally meant to look like. To others the term "Heritage" means they can get $10.00 a chick for their birds instead of $2.00 a chick. And there are yet others that it means various others things between the 2 things that I have mentioned. Now, knowing Bob like I do I think when he started this thread he was meaning "Non Hatchery" or "Pure Bred"....nothing more and nothing less. I think some of you are trying to make it more complicated than it really is.
As far as breeders being hard to get stock from....I am a breeder and I can speak for myself when I say that some of you guys make it sound so easy to just pump out thousands of chicks each year so that everyone that wants some can get them. Well, it is not that easy. I have many orders for several different breeds that I raise and show each year and as hard I try I never fill them all. For example this past year I had about 25 orders for RIR chicks. I managed to fill about half of them. As a show person my first objective is to hatch for myself. I will always hatch for myself first because if something were to happen like predator attack or bad weather or disease, I have to make sure that I get what I need to carry on. After I hatched for myself I started hatching for orders. First problem I had was a light malfunction where my light timer wasn't working for about a week before I realized it. It took me a week or so to get them back to laying right again so I could continue setting eggs. About the time I got going good again I had a hen go broody and that messed the other hens up because they all want to lay in the same nest so it took me about a week to get that straightened out and I was back in business again. Well, about 3 weeks and I had another hen go broody so that set me back another week. I'm telling you all this because it is not as easy as it may seem. I guess the other thing that will make all this make sense is that most breeders that I know as well as myself don't breed from 20-30 hens. I breed from one or two Trios and that is it. I don't flock mate, I only breed my best birds. I don't know any serious show breeders that have 20 or even 10 hens that they would consider good enough to breed from to produce possible winners. What that means is you can only hatch a certain amount of chicks out of a limited amount of hens each year. Getting back to my story, after about 4-5 months of hatching chicks and many days that i had to take off work to make trips to the post office to ship chicks I got my fill and shut the incubators down so could give the hens and myself a rest. Now most of the people that I didn't fill the orders for were understanding but a few were pretty ugly about it. There is one more thing that I and many breeders have learned....that is that alot of beginners think that they can get chicks from you after they saw a picture of a bird that you won with in Poultry Press and that every chick that they get is going to grow up and look just like that and when they don't they call raising sand about how their birds don't look like that bird that they seen at the show. Well, there are alot of factors that go into that bird that they seen in the Poultry Press or at the show. The living conditions, quality of feed, and conditioning. Anyway, these are just a few examples of why it is not as easy as it may seem to get everyone the birds that they desire.
Matt

Thank you Matt for taking the time to post this. I think everyone who even thinks they might want eggs/birds from a breeder need to be reminded of these points..............

 

[fowlman01]

They all show in APA shows and breed.

Showing and hatching chickens does not make a "breeder". Half or more of the APA Master Exhibitors are not breeders.

w.

 

[cgmccary]

Quote: Narragansett: Absolutely. The American education system, and I use the term loosely, is creating a generation who expects that their failures, problems, issues and inabilities will be catered to by others. There is no personal accountability anymore, no sense of working hard to overcome any obstacles, no idea of quality in anything, in the poultry world as well the world in general. It's all about people's feelings and emotions, worrying about what PC term to use that will not "offend" anyone. Everyone is worried about what the next popular electronic gadget will be, or which "rare" breed of poultry will be discovered by people who never heard of it because they never bothered to open a book before the internet came around.

Yes, I agree. Saladin was making a general statement about American society as a whole and not as a personal insult to anyone in particular. One only has to look at the people sleeping outside the Apple stores in line to get the next IPhone to understand the gist of Saladin's observation. Most Americans want instant gratification and are not willing nor have the patience to work long and hard toward a particular goal. They want the best now & today; they believe it is their right. The attention span of the general public is extremely short as well. Of course, this does not apply to EACH & EVERY American, but generally (there are more than 300 million of us). Also, generally, I have observed folks are thin-skinned.

 

[cgmccary]

Thank you Matt for taking the time to post this. I think everyone who even thinks they might want eggs/birds from a breeder need to be reminded of these points..............

Yes, X2 Matt.

 

[Texasmja]

Showing and hatching chickens does not make a "breeder". Half or more of the APA Master Exhibitors are not breeders.

w.

What is your definition of a good SOP breeder? When I looked for quality birds, I looked to people who showed successfully and bred quality lines. I am just telling my experience. I have been studying my breed for two years, I have a pretty good idea what a good bird looks like. They are calling themselves a breeder, not me. I feel like that one incident was a person trying to sell me some serious culls, that I have seen hatchery birds look better than, I was not impressed no matter how many shows she has won.

 

[Texasmja]

Good advice from Matt:
Have a thick skin and listen to advice whether you agree or not. Ultimately it is your decision on what to do with it. Don't bother arguing with the advice giver, you can ask for clarity but remember you asked their opinion and you have little chance of changing it.