Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[BarnGoddess01]

Believe it or not (but it is a fact) scientists and nutritionists know more about the more nutrional requirements of a chicken than of people. You can do research on the nutritional requierents of chickens but you can't do the same type of research on people. Having said that, the diets formulated for a laying hen, growing bird, or a chick starter will provide all the necessary nutrients for optimum growth WITH an eye towards economic feasibility. This has been done at nausium for the chicken so the diets you purchase are formulated to meet these needs. However, I do know that many top breeders have discovered additional ingredients that are specific for each breed that have been shown to be very beneficial. The only caution I would add is to NOT provide additional ingredients IN PLACE of formulated diets. The ingredients amd vitamin and mineral packs added to these diets will ensure they get the proper protein, calcium, phosphorous, amino acids, etc. necessary for performance and growth and help maintain a proper balance of all nutrients. Any added ingredients are great and will often add the final touch to already good birds, but don't short change your birds by eliminating formulated diets completely.

Money is usually the bottom line for commercial feed companies. Minimum of input from them to get a product that is marketable. That does NOT mean it is necessarily best for the birds. Passable, perhaps, but not necessarily best.

 

[gjensen]

Bentley's post is why I have not been able to bring myself to get past the professionally formulated diets. We have come along ways concerning poultry nutrition. I do not consider myself a nutritionist.

I am not saying that you cannot do it differently than I do. I know a lot of intelligent people that have found that this or that has worked for them. There is a lot of variables to consider as to why one person can be successful with their methods, and another cannot. I do not think that when you are searching out an ideal, that all birds are created equally.

Some breeds are hard feathered. Some are soft feathered, and some are excessively feathered. Some are barely feathered at all. It requires some protein etc. for feather maintenance. Some breeds have been pushed for performance and others barely lay at all. Some grow fast, some grow slow. Some have been selected over a thousand years to thrive on a crude diet, where many of the breeds that we discuss here are recent and have been selected on a diet of cheap processed grains. This is a reason why I do not believe that bagged rations are perfect, but I start right there. Since my birds are not commercial layers, I base my feed on a game bird ration. I suspect that my new Catalanas might reach peak condition on a very slightly different diet than my New Hampshires.

My "pasture" is different than what others might range their birds on. I live in what we call our sand hills. The soil is relatively barren and acidic. The grasses that dominate here, bahia and common bermuda are coarse and are not particularly digest able. My birds eat more misc weeds than they do the grass, but over time there is less weeds, and less diversity. I cannot "depend" on the "pasture" that I have. I do try to improve their natural forage, because I credit their condition to the ability to forage. One way I help with the plant diversity is to get out the tiller. If I till a section, I bring up long buried weed seeds. Here my forage is better in Feb. than it is in the summer. I also lime the ground and rotate the birds to new fresh ground. I think that new fresh ground is invigorating.

I have tried this and that, but right now my birds are on a high quality bagged ration, and allowed to range. I supplement with various stuff at different times of the year, but with a watchful eye on their condition. I believe that the birds will tell on you, if you watch them, and handle them.

I have varied through the years, and I will probably continue to attempt improvements and cost efficiency. Right now I have not been able to beat what I buy in a bag, and by letting them range as much as I can. This may be to a lack of knowledge. I am not a nutritionist.

If I just feed my birds a few grains and sunflower seeds, my birds would lose condition.

 

[Bentley]

 Bentley's post is why I have not been able to bring myself to get past the professionally formulated diets. We have come along ways concerning poultry nutrition. I do not consider myself a nutritionist.

 I am not saying that you cannot do it differently than I do. I know a lot of intelligent people that have found that this or that has worked for them. There is a lot of variables to consider as to why one person can be successful with their methods, and another cannot. I do not think that when you are searching out an ideal, that all birds are created equally.

 Some breeds are hard feathered. Some are soft feathered, and some are excessively feathered. Some are barely feathered at all. It requires some protein etc. for feather maintenance. Some breeds have been pushed for performance and others barely lay at all. Some grow fast, some grow slow. Some have been selected over a thousand years to thrive on a crude diet, where many of the breeds that we discuss here are recent and have been selected on a diet of cheap processed grains. This is a reason why I do not believe that bagged rations are perfect, but I start right there. Since my birds are not commercial layers, I base my feed on a game bird ration. I suspect that my new Catalanas might reach peak condition on a very slightly different diet than my New Hampshires.

 My "pasture" is different than what others might range their birds on. I live in what we call our sand hills. The soil is relatively barren and acidic. The grasses that dominate here, bahia and common bermuda are coarse and are not particularly digest able. My birds eat more misc weeds than they do the grass, but over time there is less weeds, and less diversity. I cannot "depend" on the "pasture" that I have. I do try to improve their natural forage, because I credit their condition to the ability to forage. One way I help with the plant diversity is to get out the tiller. If I till a section, I bring up long buried weed seeds. Here my forage is better in Feb. than it is in the summer. I also lime the ground and rotate the birds to new fresh ground. I think that new fresh ground is invigorating.

 I have tried this and that, but right now my birds are on a high quality bagged ration, and allowed to range. I supplement with various stuff at different times of the year, but with a watchful eye on their condition. I believe that the birds will tell on you, if you watch them, and handle them.

 I have varied through the years, and I will probably continue to attempt improvements and cost efficiency. Right now I have not been able to beat what I buy in a bag, and by letting them range as much as I can. This may be to a lack of knowledge. I am not a nutritionist.

 If I just feed my birds a few grains and sunflower seeds, my birds would lose condition.

Right on!!! This is a great way to approach this!! All birds are different and have different requirements. However, the basic building blocks of a nutritionally balanced diet for fowl is fairly constant. Make sure they get the essential Amino Acids and vitamins and minerals then supplement with 'the goodies' that experience tells you they need then let them forage to find the 'other stuff' they want. Nothing better than chickens that are able to forage and range feed to get the extras. Besides, I am certain that they LOVE IT and chickens just look so dang cool scattered across an open field scratching and pecking away.

 

[Hangtown Farms]

Bentley's post is why I have not been able to bring myself to get past the professionally formulated diets. We have come along ways concerning poultry nutrition. I do not consider myself a nutritionist.

I am not saying that you cannot do it differently than I do. I know a lot of intelligent people that have found that this or that has worked for them. There is a lot of variables to consider as to why one person can be successful with their methods, and another cannot. I do not think that when you are searching out an ideal, that all birds are created equally.

Some breeds are hard feathered. Some are soft feathered, and some are excessively feathered. Some are barely feathered at all. It requires some protein etc. for feather maintenance. Some breeds have been pushed for performance and others barely lay at all. Some grow fast, some grow slow. Some have been selected over a thousand years to thrive on a crude diet, where many of the breeds that we discuss here are recent and have been selected on a diet of cheap processed grains. This is a reason why I do not believe that bagged rations are perfect, but I start right there. Since my birds are not commercial layers, I base my feed on a game bird ration. I suspect that my new Catalanas might reach peak condition on a very slightly different diet than my New Hampshires.

My "pasture" is different than what others might range their birds on. I live in what we call our sand hills. The soil is relatively barren and acidic. The grasses that dominate here, bahia and common bermuda are coarse and are not particularly digest able. My birds eat more misc weeds than they do the grass, but over time there is less weeds, and less diversity. I cannot "depend" on the "pasture" that I have. I do try to improve their natural forage, because I credit their condition to the ability to forage. One way I help with the plant diversity is to get out the tiller. If I till a section, I bring up long buried weed seeds. Here my forage is better in Feb. than it is in the summer. I also lime the ground and rotate the birds to new fresh ground. I think that new fresh ground is invigorating.

I have tried this and that, but right now my birds are on a high quality bagged ration, and allowed to range. I supplement with various stuff at different times of the year, but with a watchful eye on their condition. I believe that the birds will tell on you, if you watch them, and handle them.

I have varied through the years, and I will probably continue to attempt improvements and cost efficiency. Right now I have not been able to beat what I buy in a bag, and by letting them range as much as I can. This may be to a lack of knowledge. I am not a nutritionist.

If I just feed my birds a few grains and sunflower seeds, my birds would lose condition.

Tilling is a god way to bring up seeds and bugs for sure. The only thing though is they will eat many a bit of next years greens by eating the seeds. Do you supplement by adding seed like a clover and or legume crop?

 

[Robert Blosl]

Eggs I want Eggs NOW Why wont this guy ship his Dark Brahma Eggs to me this week?

This is the wrong time of the year to pester Master Breeders for eggs if you are lucky to find a breeder of a good breed who will share his eggs with you. Most breeders find eggs a waist of time. Many of the breeders are scaling down to fewer females and fewer pens because of the cost of feed. So if we have three trios of large fowl we are not going to get many eggs per day this time of the year. Then we want to hatch for ourselves and have young birds ready for the fall shows. There is they sell most of the birds say at Lucas ville or Columbus ect. They may be gone in a hour after they arrive at a show the day be for its starts.

For some of you converting from production CHICKENS to the old fashion standard breed chickens you may have to get your eggs from a person who converted two or three years ago themselves. They normally advertise on this web site that they have chicks for sale or eggs. If you see them making comments on this thread, or the Rhode Island Red or Plymouth Rock tread send them a person message. They feel your PAIN. They where beginners once them selves and the will on the most part help you. If you are a beginner and never owned a incubator getting chicks or eggs from them will be fine. You are going to have a learning curve with incubators anyway unless you buy a fool proof one that is self setting thermostat. Most people buy the cheep est incubator money can buy and put it in a room that is not consistent with the temp and have all kinds problems.

So here is a question for you folks that have mastered a incubator and have had good results. What books have you read that you could recommend to these first time users? What web sites or articles or threads could you post so they could go to to learn. What incubators would you suggest to a beginner to purchase. We all know the wooden incubator the Sportsman from Georgia Quall Factory is tops but its about $800. if its fertil it will hatch in that incubator but some folks are on a budget or small scale they need a less expensive model.

Now her is my tip of the day for buyers and folks who want to share their eggs with beginners. Many of you have chosen your top breeders and have maybe five to ten females left over that are good birds but have maybe a few little faults in color or combs not nothing big for a kid who is getting started in a 4 H project. Take these females and put them in a big pen and place one or two of your top males you are holding over and have a flock mating. Collect these eggs and prepair them to be shipped to the beginner. If you dont want to fool with eggs or dont have time put the eggs in the incubator and sell the chicks when they are ten days old and ship them out overnight express in a small single nest shipping box from Horizon or a small baby chick box five chicks per compartment. The buyer pays you for the cost of the box, shipping and the cost for the chicks. Ten nice chicks is not a bad way to get a start. Just a thought for you who are egg buyers who want these type of Large Fowl.

When its time to feed the chicks its very simple. Buy a good MEDICATED chick starter, convert them over to a grower in about four months, then feed them a good conditioner feed or egg laying feed about 15% or more protein. You are beginners dont get so worked up on feed. I use FRM from Georgia and I use the game bird type better grains but cost more. KISS

 

[gjensen]

Tilling is a god way to bring up seeds and bugs for sure. The only thing though is they will eat many a bit of next years greens by eating the seeds. Do you supplement by adding seed like a clover and or legume crop?

I water and lime what I till. I let it get established before they have access. In the meantime the grass is starting to re establish, along with the weeds. Otherwise, I am just giving them a very big dustbath.
I do overseed chicory, clover etc. I want to change that though. Vetch, creeping fescue, and chickweed does better here on it's own than the others. I want to encourage it, rather than paying for seed of plants that are not well adapted. Planting a patch specifically for the others works better here.

 

[Hangtown Farms]

Eggs I want Eggs NOW Why wont this guy ship his Dark Brahma Eggs to me this week?

This is the wrong time of the year to pester Master Breeders for eggs if you are lucky to find a breeder of a good breed who will share his eggs with you. Most breeders find eggs a waist of time. Many of the breeders are scaling down to fewer females and fewer pens because of the cost of feed. So if we have three trios of large fowl we are not going to get many eggs per day this time of the year. Then we want to hatch for ourselves and have young birds ready for the fall shows. There is they sell most of the birds say at Lucas ville or Columbus ect. They may be gone in a hour after they arrive at a show the day be for its starts.

For some of you converting from production CHICKENS to the old fashion standard breed chickens you may have to get your eggs from a person who converted two or three years ago themselves. They normally advertise on this web site that they have chicks for sale or eggs. If you see them making comments on this thread, or the Rhode Island Red or Plymouth Rock tread send them a person message. They feel your PAIN. They where beginners once them selves and the will on the most part help you. If you are a beginner and never owned a incubator getting chicks or eggs from them will be fine. You are going to have a learning curve with incubators anyway unless you buy a fool proof one that is self setting thermostat. Most people buy the cheep est incubator money can buy and put it in a room that is not consistent with the temp and have all kinds problems.

So here is a question for you folks that have mastered a incubator and have had good results. What books have you read that you could recommend to these first time users? What web sites or articles or threads could you post so they could go to to learn. What incubators would you suggest to a beginner to purchase. We all know the wooden incubator the Sportsman from Georgia Quall Factory is tops but its about $800. if its fertil it will hatch in that incubator but some folks are on a budget or small scale they need a less expensive model.

Now her is my tip of the day for buyers and folks who want to share their eggs with beginners. Many of you have chosen your top breeders and have maybe five to ten females left over that are good birds but have maybe a few little faults in color or combs not nothing big for a kid who is getting started in a 4 H project. Take these females and put them in a big pen and place one or two of your top males you are holding over and have a flock mating. Collect these eggs and prepair them to be shipped to the beginner. If you dont want to fool with eggs or dont have time put the eggs in the incubator and sell the chicks when they are ten days old and ship them out overnight express in a small single nest shipping box from Horizon or a small baby chick box five chicks per compartment. The buyer pays you for the cost of the box, shipping and the cost for the chicks. Ten nice chicks is not a bad way to get a start. Just a thought for you who are egg buyers who want these type of Large Fowl.

When its time to feed the chicks its very simple. Buy a good MEDICATED chick starter, convert them over to a grower in about four months, then feed them a good conditioner feed or egg laying feed about 15% or more protein. You are beginners dont get so worked up on feed. I use FRM from Georgia and I use the game bird type better grains but cost more. KISS

I use un medicated chick starter. I am not a beginner but by no means anywhere close to a expert. I have not had any issues with health on the chicks or young chickens.
I do find shipped dark egg laying breeds do not hatch well during the weather extremes. Summer / Winter. My bator is not that great but I get 90% out of picked up eggs but all the shipped penedesenca / empordanesa eggs I have tried to hatch fail. I even have had a few friends on Byc try and hatch some and from different places.

 

[Hangtown Farms]

I water and lime what I till. I let it get established before they have access. In the meantime the grass is starting to re establish, along with the weeds. Otherwise, I am just giving them a very big dustbath.
I do overseed chicory, clover etc. I want to change that though. Vetch, creeping fescue, and chickweed does better here on it's own than the others. I want to encourage it, rather than paying for seed of plants that are not well adapted. Planting a patch specifically for the others works better here.

good idea. Your local ag extension might have some ideas on native vegetation seed sources if you wanted to go that route. Or you can look around online. Many times it also depends on the area the seed was grown as for plant hardiness and adaptability as well.

 

[ashandvine]

Does anyone have a good picture of a Golden penciled Hamburg? They remind me of Campines. (non professional eye here) I am used to seeing the silver spangled. But I would love to find some silver or gold penciled Hamburg LF.

 

[cgmccary]

Quote: "The New Incubation Book," by Dr. A.F. Anderson Brown & G.E.S. Robbins (Hancock House publisher) just about covers every aspect of hatching any kind of egg from chickens, geese, falcons, ducks to even penguin eggs.



[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Quote:[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Brincea has a wide selection of very good incubators for the beginner to the most experienced (all ranges of prices & features). I use broody hens to hatch in Spring & that is my prferred method of hatching. However, even though I have a Buckeye broody available right now, when I start hatching early & it is too cold to have chicks raised in the middle of winter, as I have my La Fleche (due January 1), I use a Brincea Octagon 40 (can hold up to 48 chicken eggs & not expensive), & I move to a Hovabator (styrofoam) Genesis as a hatcher the last 3 days. I also use the Genesis if I am hatching small numbers of eggs (say 12 or less). Sometimes, I hand turn in the Genesis, but I do have one of those turners I can put in there. The Genesis is a good, cheap incubator for a beginner. It has digitally controlled temperature and has a built in hygrometer (humidity). Whatever incubator one chooses, the best single advice I would give is to follow the manufacturer's written instructions on temperature and where & when to add water. [/FONT]