Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[gjensen]

This is often a reflection of built up tolerance to challenges. When I travel to Mexico or central America I don't dare drink the water. However the locals can drink it with no problem. Why? They have developed a natural resistance to the impurities in the water because they have been exposed to them for years. Me? No way, I would be sick sick sick if I drank the very same water.

Yes sir, I get that. I wonder about the attraction to. That Rosy, was covered in a week. Never seen anything like it.

There is a difference in my three boys. One is adopted, so geneticly different. When we are out, there are mosquitos on him that are not on us. Something is attracting them more to him than us. My nephew would be covered. They are especially drawn to him. What draws them?

I get the general weakness subject. There is something about a weak animal that sets them apart.

Off topic, but it came to mind.

 

[catdaddyfro]

This is often a reflection of built up tolerance to challenges. When I travel to Mexico or central America I don't dare drink the water. However the locals can drink it with no problem. Why? They have developed a natural resistance to the impurities in the water because they have been exposed to them for years. Me? No way, I would be sick sick sick if I drank the very same water.

I just had this same thought come across as I was out slopping around in the mud and muck doing chores which always makes for a longer time frame for my mind to drift off into whatever else it may think is more important at the time,LOL I reckon it sorta makes time fly by and a little less miserable. But I too thought of the same scenario of the water in Mexico and its effects on foreigners, as they say: "you can drink the beer but don't dare drink the water". its all relative to the topic at hand.

Jeff

 

[Wynette]

Drinking water in countries other than your own is a most excellent anology - thanks for putting it that way!

 

[fowlman01]

Birds, or animals, or people for that matter will,have have varying degrees of resistance to challenges. The reference to some people getting bit by mosquitoes more frequently than others is a great analogy.

As a reference, I have seen, even within a single breed and strain varying levels of resistance or tolerance to contracting disease or parasites. Research has shown that within a house of birds infected with Northern Fowl Mites that there will be birds in the flock in cages surrounded by other birds all infested with Mites and that simply do not have mites, AT ALL. When these birds that were mite free were then removed from the population and bred to each other the subsequent generation had a larger number of birds that were not preferred targets for mites. With each generation selected like this the population became more 'resistant' to any infestations of mites. This can also occur with many other types of pathogen or parasite challenges birds might encounter.

I have seen this for years. The birds can even be in with the infested birds and not have them on them.

Walt

 

[maryhysong]

Birds, or animals, or people for that matter will,have have varying degrees of resistance to challenges. The reference to some people getting bit by mosquitoes more frequently than others is a great analogy.

As a reference, I have seen, even within a single breed and strain varying levels of resistance or tolerance to contracting disease or parasites. Research has shown that within a house of birds infected with Northern Fowl Mites that there will be birds in the flock in cages surrounded by other birds all infested with Mites and that simply do not have mites, AT ALL. When these birds that were mite free were then removed from the population and bred to each other the subsequent generation had a larger number of birds that were not preferred targets for mites. With each generation selected like this the population became more 'resistant' to any infestations of mites. This can also occur with many other types of pathogen or parasite challenges birds might encounter.

I think that it should be fairly easy to manage a flock and breed towards resistance to most things. Common things like Coccidiosis and mites would be easy places to start. I don't vaccinate for anything at this point and I don't feed medicated feed. Even chicks brooded in the house get greens, weeds with dirt, earthworms and their compost, a pile of sand, all full of bacteria and other things, good and bad. This is to expose them to these things and help build immunity. I do put raw apple cider vinegar in their water the first few days, whether hatched or bought, as the probiotics seem to help boost good gut flora and prevent cocci and pasty butt. I also tend to feed yogurt or buttermilk at least a few days week for the same reason, as well as for the protein. In addition I ferment all my birds feed and this seems to help also.

So far things are going pretty well. Now I am thinking about showing next year and having my birds exposed to other diseases not currently present at my place may change the way I do some things. I am still studying this and thinking about it.

 

[3riverschick]

Here is my strategy for developing tolerance to coccidiosis.
For incubated chicks, I brood in 1/4 inch wire the first two weeks and thn move to 1/2 inch wire.

Yes, that is what I do too. I said one week for the 1/4 inch earlier to err on the side of caution. Glad to see someone else uses 1/4 inch for the full two weeks. Thanks, NanaKat.

Karen

 

[3riverschick]

What you're seeing in chicks is the same problem I have seen in puppies from very hygenic dog breeders for years.Puppies whelped and raised on slippery newspaper have all sorts of problems with "Swimmer Syndrome", and later hip dysplasia, in large breeds. My Mastiffs were raised on stretched cotton thermal blankets, which gave them traction to get their feet under them.The pups were up much earlier than those on paper who were simply getting fat, and slithering around on their bellies.

There it is! Thank you dragonlady! I have been trying to draw the parallel for months and just couldn't quite make it. Yes, Yes! We bred fine working rough and smooth collies. Agree about the surfaces. We used quilted moving mats. All about traction. Glad to see you are using pine shavings, I am on the right track there. The perch, I need to think about that. Sussex can have a problem with crooked keels if they perch too early. But... for my little pups I made an obstacle course. small tunnels to run thru plastic stair-step spice rack to climb, different surfaces to explore. Maybe I could make something like that for my chicks which wouldn't encourage perching. Hum...things like they would encounter if they were freeranging with a broodie.

Chicks are meant to be on rough ground, scampering around, following their mom. They are not meant to be sliding around on slick surfaces. I brood my chicks in a 300 Gallon Rubbermaid water tub. It is bedded in fine shavings, and has a branch in it to encourage early perching. The chicks get a lot of exercise, and develop their muscles running and flying up on the branch.

I'm lucky that my Orps are jolly souls, who do not pick on one another. I have had chicks aged 1-4 weeks happily living together with no problem. At 4 weeks, out they go. Yes, answers to two other questions I have been researching for a concensus. Sussex and Orpingtons (properly bred) are not that much different in temperament). Thank you!

 

[Arielle]

Chris, There is a lot of scientific info out there mostly at university sites and places like that. Like I said I am not a scientist and most of it is beyond my grasp but what I have read is that cocci in poultry is from the protozoa parasite, or parasitic protozoa, eimeria. They are developing vaccines, and have developed vaccines and there are studies being done about the birds own genetic immunity to cocci. If it was just a parasite they would not be able to vaccinate against it.

This is from Merks Vet Manual but there is a lot of info out there about poultry cocci.

Coccidiosis is caused by protozoa of the phylum Apicomplexa, family Eimeriidae. In poultry, most species belong to the genus Eimeria and infect various sites in the intestine. The infectious process is rapid (4-7 days) and is characterized by parasite replication in host cells with extensive damage to the intestinal mucosa.

This is from Anita Haug, National Vet Institute, Norway: http://www-miljo.slu.se/PhD_proj_Anita_Haug.pdf

Coccidiosis is essentially a disease of livestock that are reared intensively. It is caused by the invasion and replication within the intestine by microscopic one-celled protozoan parasites. A mild coccidiosis infection, kept under control, is not very harmful, and is actually necessary for creating immunity in the flock. A severe attack of coccidiosis can cause weight losses, morbidity and mortality.

Penny

NIce write up!!!

Currently there are vaccines for viruses and bacteria for humans.Traditionally only vaccines for virues were made because we use antibiotics for the bacterial diseases. Recently a vaccine was made for the bacterial menengitis because it is becoming resistant to antibiotics. Cocidiosis is a tiny parasitic organism and the vaccine does reduce or eliminate the disease state for the chickens from what I was able to find when researching the vaccine.. Effectiveness is limited to those specific organisms used in the vaccine and how correctly it is applied. No vaccine is 100%. It is about creating IgG globulins that target specific proteins. After exposure, it takes2-4 weeks to create the IgG's. After the disease state is conquored, even if artificially created by the vaccine, specialized cells go into storage to wait for the next invasion. SOmetimes boosters are needed to keep this level high enough to confront the invaders and beat the invaders. THen other specialized cells go back into storage again.

THis is how I explain it to my children--hope it made sense--not always sure my kids get my crazy explanations.

 

[fowlman01]

RIR from the show Saturday.






Catalana in a double cage..a good sized good type bird. The first reasonable type Catalana I have ever seen.

Walt

 

[Garilyn Bardash]

I just had this same thought come across as I was out slopping around in the mud and muck doing chores which always makes for a longer time frame for my mind to drift off into whatever else it may think is more important at the time,LOL I reckon it sorta makes time fly by and a little less miserable. But I too thought of the same scenario of the water in Mexico and its effects on foreigners, as they say: "you can drink the beer but don't dare drink the water". its all relative to the topic at hand.

Jeff

also don't drink a drink with ice in it, it is contaminated too!