Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[3riverschick]

Want to read something good. New Beginner Old Beginner by Wid Card.

http://archive.org/stream/cu31924003158312#page/n51/mode/2up

I was reading, once again, Pages, end of 22 thru 27. Card explains much better than I about how undercolor affects top color in breeds where black and white are segregated
(as in the Columbian breeds), brassiness, creaminess, color balancing. What a gift he had for making complex issues into simple converstional prose.
Best,
Karen

 

[Robert Blosl]

Culling is after you get your first start. So if you have two females and they look pretty good you are com-pairing the pullets to their mothers. You can put say ten pullets in a pen with the hens so you can look at them and com pair them as they grow up. The reason to wing band and keep good records is to watch for early development and fast feathering. These females normally are your most vigorous birds and if you have some that are slow to feather, act stupid not alert and no very good at looking for bugs ect you cull them. When you get down to say five months you should have a pretty good idea who is going to be looking better and hopefully you will keep them as future breeders. The first year is a tough year as you don't want to cull to fast as you may make a mistake. You may also may have someone who says do you have any laying hens for sale? Then take some of these females and farm them out. Go back and check on them when they are about seven to eight months old. You may find a gem in there.

I know one lady that farmed out some chicks and went back and found a killer male. Perfectly finished and ready to show if she wanted to.

In males I like to watch them for feathering as well. Watch for the young males that start to crow first be for their brothers do. They may also be gal lent and vigorous. If you have a bunch of cowards who run and hide their heads in a corner these do not make good breeders.

More on this latter. So much to learn and improve on like brooding the chicks once you get them. Heaven forbid you never operated a incubator befor and get a bunch of good eggs. This can be a sad event. I did when I started cheap foam incubator and had it in the sun in a bed room in front of a window. Hatched two eggs out of two dozen.

For those who have been raising feed store chickens for a few years this is a plus when getting started.

Practice makes perfect so give it a try.

 

[FOGELLY]

When I rotate a rooster out of a breeding pen I will wait a week before adding the new rooster,
then another week before using eggs from the new mating.

However, at a breeding and incubation seminar last spring here in Arkansas, Dr Barnwell from the University of Arkansas said this practice was unneccesary.
He stated that a hens reproductive tract stores sperm from the male and will remain fertile up to 5-6 days after a mating, but if she is covered by another rooster anytime afterwards that the sperm from the second mating kills off the sperm from previous mating. He said you could change roosters and within 3 days have fertile eggs from that mating without worry.


I still give my hens a break between rotations and gather and incubate the eggs in between. I have found them to start losing fertility around 6 days after removing the rooster.

Ron

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Fogelly, nice avatar.


Much of one's approach depends on the quality of one's stock--which should be of the best available regardless of cost.

APA/ABA judge Jackie Koedatich keeps a small flock of very high quality Australorps. She raises a dozen a year and commonly takes home champion Large Fowl. Why? Australorps are available in exceptionally high quality. When that is the case, like produces like, and one can count on hatchlings that are consistently excellent, some better than others.

Others breeds of large fowl are exceedingly rare, and the best stocks available are hardly much better than hatchery stock....I happen to specialize in this latter type

. With these, one starts with the best one can, and one begins to breed large numbers and cull ruthlessly and without distraction. Slowly progress happens--SLOWLY. Here one is making a very long-term commitment and not exspecting miracles tomorrow.

If there are others working on the same stock, with the same goals, one can cull differently than if one is forced to believe that there is no one to whom one can turn in the event that new stock is needed. If there is no other stock available and one knows of no other breeders going down the same path, one needs to make plans for the future and consider how one is going to avoid genetic bottlenecks.

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

When I rotate a rooster out of a breeding pen I will wait a week before adding the new rooster,
then another week before using eggs from the new mating.

However, at a breeding and incubation seminar last spring here in Arkansas, Dr Barnwell from the University of Arkansas said this practice was unneccesary.
He stated that a hens reproductive tract stores sperm from the male and will remain fertile up to 5-6 days after a mating, but if she is covered by another rooster anytime afterwards that the sperm from the second mating kills off the sperm from previous mating. He said you could change roosters and within 3 days have fertile eggs from that mating without worry.


I still give my hens a break between rotations and gather and incubate the eggs in between. I have found them to start losing fertility around 6 days after removing the rooster.

Ron

The Incubation Seminar is available to view FREE here on BYC. Just search for it in the search box.

 

[Wynette]

I would like to open the tails on my welsummers. I'd love any advise on how you get a better spread on the tails.

I've been searching for breeding strategies for this, too, Kelly; I'd think there must be further information other than "cull for pinched tails" but maybe I'm wrong? What is the cause of pinched tails, does it have to do with length of back? Size of bird? ANGLE of tail?

 

[catdaddyfro]

I've been searching for breeding strategies for this, too, Kelly; I'd think there must be further information other than "cull for pinched tails" but maybe I'm wrong? What is the cause of pinched tails, does it have to do with length of back? Size of bird? ANGLE of tail?

Its more like the width of the rear of the bird has more to do with pinched/full tails than anything else. In other words more square from front to rear =a fuller more spread out tail rather than wedge shaped from wider front to a narrow rear would= a pinched tightly grouped feathered tail. Therefore more room for the innards and vitals ie.organs and egg factory .Also tails are generally pinched too from top to bottom this has to do also with the depth of the bird top to bottom, too shallow is not good and a deeper rear area also= more room for the internals to work and do their thing better. So the shape of the tail is visual indicator of these traits. The only better tell tale is the actual handling and measuring of the bird. There should be many threads or posts on how to use the number of fingers to check the pelvic area(width and height) to show a good thrifty bird compared to a unhealthy or poor producer.

Jeff

 

[Wynette]

Jeff, thanks much. Then, what is the breeding strategy say, for example, if I've got some pretty good quality heritage birds that are difficult to find other genetic lines of, so I am in need of "using what I have" - is this an impossible task if I don't have a huge selection of birds to work with? Meaning, if I don't have a great female (as pertains to spread of tail), will I never be able to improve on the tail, or would there be a chance of getting there by using the "best possible" specimen I have, and culling for tails, keeping the best each generation?

 

[snowbird]

Jeff, thanks much. Then, what is the breeding strategy say, for example, if I've got some pretty good quality heritage birds that are difficult to find other genetic lines of, so I am in need of "using what I have" - is this an impossible task if I don't have a huge selection of birds to work with? Meaning, if I don't have a great female (as pertains to spread of tail), will I never be able to improve on the tail, or would there be a chance of getting there by using the "best possible" specimen I have, and culling for tails, keeping the best each generation?

Wynette, getting the female to be more open is best done by using a big bushy tail male that is very open. This will work as long as your female are wide back all the way back to tail. If the female have a tapered back it will be a longer process. The Bushy tail male is the starting point.

 

[catdaddyfro]

Jeff, thanks much. Then, what is the breeding strategy say, for example, if I've got some pretty good quality heritage birds that are difficult to find other genetic lines of, so I am in need of "using what I have" - is this an impossible task if I don't have a huge selection of birds to work with? Meaning, if I don't have a great female (as pertains to spread of tail), will I never be able to improve on the tail, or would there be a chance of getting there by using the "best possible" specimen I have, and culling for tails, keeping the best each generation?

Yes it will take some time but it can be done, and remember too, to also look at the breeding males. They are half of the equation its not just a hen problem and mixing 2 of the same faults together will beget the same fault over and over. In your case it may be you need to look for an outside source different line/strain of males with better tails to breed into the mix. A lot of people are against outcrossing but if what you need is not there you got to go get it, like begets like. The most thing I see when people are referring to "not outcrossing" is not to disturb the gene pool, well in some cases the gene pool needs a little stirring/added ingredient(s). The "breaking the breeding law" by out crossing I think would be more interruptive to color more than anything which is one of the very last things to work on and should be the easiest to fix, IMO with some exception to the party colors like you have. You have to always keep it in the back of your mind while working on improving other areas, there's a catch to everything. This is one reason you'll hear over and over again these multi-colored or hard to breed for colors are not for the newbies or faint of heart LOL

Jeff

I was typing this as snowbird replied we are close to being on the same page, here