Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[thedragonlady]

I am slowly culling down my Black Java cockerels. There has been some horrific fighting and I noticed today that a couple of them have broken the tips off their upper beaks. One of them was my number 1 keeper choice until he broke his beak. Now I am torn. On the one hand, an easily breakable beak is a weak point I don't want to carry through to future generations. On the other hand the broad back, really wide tail and nice comb are traits I don't want to lose from the gene pool.

They're almost 17 weeks old. For the last six weeks they've been on soy-free organic finisher feed with 17% protein. It doesn't have animal protein, which may be part of the problem. And they've been so busy fighting each other I'm not sure they're getting proper nutrition, even though I've put out multiple feeding stations. Hence the earlier-than-desired cull.

Any thoughts on whether the broken beak tip is going to be a problem in a breeding program?

Thanks for any insight you can give me.

Sarah

Throw some Calf Manna into your ration for those birds. They sound like they need the vitamins and minerals !

 

[3riverschick]

Quote: Hi Caroline,
I heartily agreed. I raised a lot of disappointing birds until I found Walt's Light Sussex. It took a wad to get them down here. However, it is so satisfying to watch the chicks hatch and know I am carrying on a tradition of quality which took years to attain. I love a graceful, balanced silhouette. It's so much fun to watch the quality express itself as the birds grow. My little incubators only hold 7 eggs each. So the hatches are staggered and I have 4 sets of chicks at 2, 31/2 , 5 weeks and 2 1/2 months. For me personally, I feel this is much more educational than hatching just 4 hatches of 20 eggs or so. But then, this year, I only have 2 hens so 20 at a time is out of the question. Still, I think several small batches of chicks is the best way for me to learn right now.
Best,
Karen

 

[MagicChicken]

Quote:
They have been getting a supplement of Calf Manna, alfalfa pellets, whole wheat, barley and oats soaked in water with ACV for a few weeks. But they have to eat it to get the nutritional benefit. The cockerels have been too busy fighting lately to eat much of anything. Looking forward to lots of stew. They should be fine once I can cut them down to 3-5 cockerels total.

 

[Robert Blosl]

I never worried about broken beaks however, I never had any chickens that did this and my reds where good fighters years ago.

I have the mottle Javas and the parents have a weird personality almost like a leghorn in being flighty.

Don't know about the young birds as I just started raising them up.

What you got to do some times as when they start to mature you got to separate them or build you some 4x4 pens to put them in.

I got three sheets of 4x8 plywood put a two x six on the wall about three feet off the ground and nailed the boards across a long wall in my barn. Then I made some legs to support the other end like a table. Put the legs up with two by fours across the front at four feet then put the sheets of plywood up there and nailed them down. I then came up with three foot tall 2x4s and made walls with one inch chicken wire and two inch wire on the top. Made some nice doors and had then six nice pens to put my males in to maturity. I had some pens outside that where 4x6 on the ground and would rotate them out there so they could get grass and sun shine and back to the big pens in the barn. When I got down to say six or four good males to breed with or show they where in perfect feather, no injuries and ready to go to the shows.

The females are different you can have say five or six in a 8x8 pen and they get along fine till breeding or show season.

When you got some good males you got to watch them or they can get hurt tear their combs off their heads fighting between wire ect.

If you got a great typed male with a broken beak at least he is not a wimp and has vigor breed from him.The beak should grow back.

 

[Lacy Blues]

I never worried about broken beaks however, I never had any chickens that did this and my reds where good fighters years ago.

I have the mottle Javas and the parents have a weird personality almost like a leghorn in being flighty.

Don't know about the young birds as I just started raising them up.

What you got to do some times as when they start to mature you got to separate them or build you some 4x4 pens to put them in.

I got three sheets of 4x8 plywood put a two x six on the wall about three feet off the ground and nailed the boards across a long wall in my barn. Then I made some legs to support the other end like a table. Put the legs up with two by fours across the front at four feet then put the sheets of plywood up there and nailed them down. I then came up with three foot tall 2x4s and made walls with one inch chicken wire and two inch wire on the top. Made some nice doors and had then six nice pens to put my males in to maturity. I had some pens outside that where 4x6 on the ground and would rotate them out there so they could get grass and sun shine and back to the big pens in the barn. When I got down to say six or four good males to breed with or show they where in perfect feather, no injuries and ready to go to the shows.

The females are different you can have say five or six in a 8x8 pen and they get along fine till breeding or show season.

When you got some good males you got to watch them or they can get hurt tear their combs off their heads fighting between wire ect.

If you got a great typed male with a broken beak at least he is not a wimp and has vigor breed from him.The beak should grow back.

I put 2"x4" wire between my males and hung shade cloth on those. Air can still move through it but they can't see each other to fight through the wire.

 

[CountryFriedChicken]

I found some red sussex for my friend, She has some started chicks on the way. I asked a few posts ago, and never got a reply. Those are breeder quality chicks from two lines and not hatchery.

Thank goodness for Google and persistence so that this RARE HERITAGE breed can be preserved!

I am sorry that I am a bother,

 

[3riverschick]

Quote: I am really happy for you! Google is a wonderful help when we are trying to find something obscure. Sometimes it is the fastest way too.
I know one list member here is working to recreate Red Sussex from Speckled Sussex. If you find you do need to add new blood for any reason, that might be a way to go.
Best,
Karen

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

As I'm sure this has been covered, can someone direct me to advice regarding keeping a respectable breeding program going with minimal numbers? I pulled the trigger on ordering up nice White Chantecler stock and mottled Houdans even though I live in the city. I intend to attempt to keep roos in nice basement pens after they start crowing, so systems that utilize minimal number of roosters, perhaps replacing them every year, would be ideal... but I'm open to suggestions! If out doesn't work out I guess I will be setting someone else up with a couple of nice breeding sets.

 

[BGMatt]

As I'm sure this has been covered, can someone direct me to advice regarding keeping a respectable breeding program going with minimal numbers? I pulled the trigger on ordering up nice White Chantecler stock and mottled Houdans even though I live in the city. I intend to attempt to keep roos in nice basement pens after they start crowing, so systems that utilize minimal number of roosters, perhaps replacing them every year, would be ideal... but I'm open to suggestions! If out doesn't work out I guess I will be setting someone else up with a couple of nice breeding sets.

I have heard of people that built double walled pens for males with cardboard baffles in between for sound proofing. As far as minimum number it all depends on what system you plan on using. Myself personally I have found that tempting fate is a great name for a band, or a dog, but a horrible idea for raising chickens. I try to keep one male and a backup for each that I need (i.e. if you run 2 breeding pens I would keep no fewer than 4 cocks)

As far as an actual system, you could take the principles outlined here http://bloslspoutlryfarm.tripod.com/id65.html and apply them to any size operation you wanted.

 

[MagicChicken]

I never worried about broken beaks however, I never had any chickens that did this and my reds where good fighters years ago.

I have the mottle Javas and the parents have a weird personality almost like a leghorn in being flighty.

Don't know about the young birds as I just started raising them up.

What you got to do some times as when they start to mature you got to separate them or build you some 4x4 pens to put them in.

I got three sheets of 4x8 plywood put a two x six on the wall about three feet off the ground and nailed the boards across a long wall in my barn. Then I made some legs to support the other end like a table. Put the legs up with two by fours across the front at four feet then put the sheets of plywood up there and nailed them down. I then came up with three foot tall 2x4s and made walls with one inch chicken wire and two inch wire on the top. Made some nice doors and had then six nice pens to put my males in to maturity. I had some pens outside that where 4x6 on the ground and would rotate them out there so they could get grass and sun shine and back to the big pens in the barn. When I got down to say six or four good males to breed with or show they where in perfect feather, no injuries and ready to go to the shows.

The females are different you can have say five or six in a 8x8 pen and they get along fine till breeding or show season.

When you got some good males you got to watch them or they can get hurt tear their combs off their heads fighting between wire ect.

If you got a great typed male with a broken beak at least he is not a wimp and has vigor breed from him.The beak should grow back.

Wish I did have a great typed male! It would make the culling decisions a lot easier. Most of the males have some good features, but they also have major defects. Hopefully I will have pullets with offsetting features and flaws. My better birds are large with broad backs and relatively wide tails (compared with their pinch-tailed brethren), but they also tend to have droopy wings, gigantic combs, long earlobes, long wattles, not enough leg, and backs that don't quite slope down to the rear. Since everyone is molting and it's also getting hot here I haven't been overly concerned about the wing carriage but I'm keeping an eye on it.

I think I figured out how the beaks may be breaking. Two birds were fighting on the roost (a weathered 2x4 on edge) and one got pushed off. In his scrambling to stay on the roost he grabbed at it with everything he had. He looked like a parrot for a second as he tried to break his fall by hanging from his beak. It occurs to me I have seen a couple of other birds do the same thing over the last week or so. Can't prove that's the cause of busted beak tips but it looks like a good prospect. I am glad to hear the beaks will grow back. It's only a millimeter or so that broke off.

Thanks for the pen construction tips, Bob. I do need to build more pens but I have to figure out where to put them. I don't want birds stuck in 4x4 pens that are not well shaded, and I'm out of shady spots in the yard. In the meantime I'm culling the scraggliest, most pinch-tailed birds of the bunch.

Sarah