Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[3riverschick]

Quote: A Light Sussex breeder I know from Canada is of the opinion that the only way to succeed with a pair is to breed for utility first. Just maintaining type in a general manner until one had enough robust birds to cull for perfection in breed type. Its working fro her.
Best,
Karen

 

[TheNuttyChick]

A Light Sussex breeder I know from Canada is of the opinion that the only way to succeed with a pair is to breed for utility first. Just maintaining type in a general manner until one had enough robust birds to cull for perfection in breed type. Its working fro her.
 Best,
 Karen

Thank you Karen, I greatly appreciate any and all suggestions and theories.

 

[TheNuttyChick]

I think that, with a pair, strictly speaking two, I would actually endeavor to follow one of the traditional 5-year line patterns where by one can create practically genetic duplicates of the parents but yet have more of them.  From there one could look at other flows of production.  In his book A Little Journey with Anconas, Sheppard does a pretty good job of explaining it.  The book is available for free on google books.  Check it out.

I think that's basically what I was trying to say, but being relatively new, I wasn't sure of the terms to use.

 

[thedragonlady]

I think that, with a pair, strictly speaking two, I would actually endeavor to follow one of the traditional 5-year line patterns where by one can create practically genetic duplicates of the parents but yet have more of them. From there one could look at other flows of production. In his book A Little Journey with Anconas, Sheppard does a pretty good job of explaining it. The book is available for free on google books. Check it out.

One of the things I most enjoy about breeding chickens is that there is not a pedigree confining , Big Brother registry. I welcome the freedom to breed 2 birds , regardless of pedigree.

I made my own winning Buff Silkies in the early 80s by breeding with ONE cock bird for 5 generations.The proof was in the pudding...the pullet won RB at the combined ABA-APA National, BEFORE buff Silkies were registered by APA. Her half sister won BB., also by the same cock.

As a long time dog breeder of over 50 years, I can tell you that most pedigrees are entirely dependent on a breeder's integrity. Now AKC is DNA testing often used stud dogs. They caught on to the fact that so many top winning dogs were not actually siring all those pups. Something long time breeders used to laugh about.

Try breeding bird to bird , taking into account faults, and virtues of each, but do not be constrained by a pedigree.

 

[BGMatt]

One of the things I most enjoy about breeding chickens is that there is not a pedigree confining , Big Brother registry. I welcome the freedom to breed 2 birds , regardless of pedigree.

I made my own winning Buff Silkies in the early 80s by breeding with ONE cock bird for 5 generations.The proof was in the pudding...the pullet won RB at the combined ABA-APA National, BEFORE buff Silkies were registered by APA. Her half sister won BB., also by the same cock.

As a long time dog breeder of over 50 years, I can tell you that most pedigrees are entirely dependent on a breeder's integrity. Now AKC is DNA testing often used stud dogs. They caught on to the fact that so many top winning dogs were not actually siring all those pups. Something long time breeders used to laugh about.

Try breeding bird to bird , taking into account faults, and virtues of each, but do not be constrained by a pedigree.

may I quote you for a group I'm teaching? Most of them are current or former dog breeders and trying to explain differences between dog and chicken breeding and would really like to use this post.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

This does sound like it would be manageable, but now my question is,what if you're only fortunate to acquire a pair? Would you create separate pens for the offspring and then start this process?

I don't know. I think I would mate the best daughters back to the sire and the best ckl or two ckls back to the hen the dam and go another year and then see what you want to come up with. To me its to many chickens to keep. I like his statement they say its to easy its not breeding. Well if it is why don't more people do it instead of failing and giving up. Breeding is a extreme skill and only one in three hundred can master it if that over ten to twenty years.

I think that, with a pair, strictly speaking two, I would actually endeavor to follow one of the traditional 5-year line patterns where by one can create practically genetic duplicates of the parents but yet have more of them. From there one could look at other flows of production. In his book A Little Journey among Anconas, Sheppard does a pretty good job of explaining it. The book is available for free on google books. Check it out.

 

[thedragonlady]

may I quote you for a group I'm teaching? Most of them are current or former dog breeders and trying to explain differences between dog and chicken breeding and would really like to use this post.

Certainly you may quote me ! I do have a few dog creds....BOB Westminster 1972 , owner handled from the open class, over specials, in Mastiffs. I have finished over 60 AKC champions, in multiple breeds, and CHs in Lure Coursing in ASFA. I am a reluctant AKC lure coursing judge, because I don't do mornings, but I do host multiple meets here on my backyard, the Camden Polo field, for cousing, conformation and racing of sight hound breeds. I have also shown and later judged hunters and dressage horses from the age of 3.

Chicken genetics are fun ! Simply get your brain in gear to use your eyes, an breed one bird to another. With one proviso....You must carry a large picture in your mind of what you want to produce, and NEVER deviate from it.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

One of the things I most enjoy about breeding chickens is that there is not a pedigree confining , Big Brother registry. I welcome the freedom to breed 2 birds , regardless of pedigree.

I made my own winning Buff Silkies in the early 80s by breeding with ONE cock bird for 5 generations.The proof was in the pudding...the pullet won RB at the combined ABA-APA National, BEFORE buff Silkies were registered by APA. Her half sister won BB., also by the same cock.

As a long time dog breeder of over 50 years, I can tell you that most pedigrees are entirely dependent on a breeder's integrity. Now AKC is DNA testing often used stud dogs. They caught on to the fact that so many top winning dogs were not actually siring all those pups. Something long time breeders used to laugh about.

Try breeding bird to bird , taking into account faults, and virtues of each, but do not be constrained by a pedigree.

Hmmmm...I certainly agree that one can breed this way and be successfulI for a period of time, but you can't run a farm this way. I could imagine doing something like this with our Dorkings, precisely because I have an entire breeding program of Dorkings such that the success or failure of this side project wouldn't risk the whole. Starting out with one pair and breeding back to the same cock for five years is going to funnel your blood and leave you stranded if there's not comparable stock to which to turn for a little extra. If I were only to have a pair and I wanted to breed back to my cock for five to eight years, then I'd follow another line-breeding pattern that would suggest doing the same pattern in reverse back to the hen, and then, after five to eight years, one could cross the two back.

 

[TheNuttyChick]

Hmmmm...I certainly agree that one can breed this way and be successfulI for a period of time, but you can't run a farm this way.  I could imagine doing something like this with our Dorkings, precisely because I have an entire breeding program of Dorkings such that the success or failure of this side project wouldn't risk the whole.  Starting out with one pair and breeding back to the same cock for five years is going to funnel your blood and leave you stranded if there's not comparable stock to which to turn for a little extra.  If I were only to have a pair and I wanted to breed back to my cock for five to eight years, then I'd follow another line-breeding pattern that would suggest doing the same pattern in reverse back to the hen, and then, after five to eight years, one could cross the two back.   

But now what if you separate any offspring and treat each pen as a separate "line"?

By creating those separate "lines", you in theory would not breed yourself into a corner.

Please correct me if I am wrong or basically creating more problems.

 

[3riverschick]

Quote:
This is the hardest thing for me. I wrestle with it everyday. The hardest thing or me is to see the value of crossbred stock. Am a huge fan of breeding systems. Not necessarily because I would use that plan, but because they show the general and specific principals behind concentrating virtue in a line or strain. Yet when many of breeders are using these systems, they are doing it with a single breed or variety of creature. Once I can get past this mental roadblock, I think I will be a better poultry breeder.
Best,
Karen
Bellwether Collies ( 1995 -2009 , retired)
Poultry since 2009.