Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[catdaddyfro]

They are not going to sell you their best birds, but you can get outstanding birds that may take a person many years to replicate.....if they ever can. I have sold birds that have won best of show for the owners.....many times. There are very few birds here that are not for sale....but I can't ship from here, so they have to be picked up. You know....people will find a way to get these birds if they really want them. I have sold birds as far away as NY and FL (I'm in CA) and the buyers have figured out ways to get them. Usually by a friend picking them up and the friend shipping from where they are. I sold a bird once at an APA national show before the judging and it ended up being best of show. Good breeders will sell good birds cuz they usually have a lot of good birds. Even if the trio costs a few hundred dollars a person would still be ahead of the game with quality stock. People on BYC are selling eggs for $75.00 and people are in line to get them and they are IMO cull birds.

Walt

I saw in the poultry press where another of the cull NH hens (you say aren't your cup of tea or aren't right on cue) has won you a pretty top honor/ribbon once again, congrats!

I hope you get them better where they will win "evertime" you show one. They are my favorite out of all.


Your right GOOD breeders should have a good bunch of birds to sell or they too would not be in business long either and the ones they use as breeders should make for eggs that someone buys from them a pretty good bird to start out with. Maybe not a show winner right out of the gate or never or it may be a Grand champion show-bird too. That is the reason a lot of good breeders don't want to or will not sell an egg(s) is that one Champion might get sold to someone else (slip past the screen and out of their hands) and that right there makes for a whole bunch of good sense to me, also.

Folks can get good stock from hatched eggs(especially if the breeder is worth his salt) and I don't expect it to be everybody's way of going about getting stock, but too it works, has for a lot of folks. It is how those NHs you are winning with got here, by eggs brought in under the radar from Germany, evidently from good breeders too

.

Jeff

 

[Kiniska]

Thankfully I love the way the solid black orps look. After flipping through thousands of chicken pics I just kept coming back to them. If it less complex than the laced or crele variations all the better. Just means I can focus on type more than color.
Here is my one black roo,12 weeks old here, I got out of my chicks. 14 chicks and I got 10 hens and only one black roo.

 

[colburg]

Even though I think I'll prefer a TRIO when getting started in the future, I'd like to ask a question about buying hatching eggs just in case. When you get hatching eggs, are they typically marked as to their relation to each other? Do breeders try to send eggs from different matings? Is it something that has to be requested by the buyer? Or is there just an inherent risk of all the eggs being siblings or half-siblings?

Thanks
colburg

 

[fowlman01]

I saw in the poultry press where another of the cull NH hens (you say aren't your cup of tea or aren't right on cue) has won you a pretty top honor/ribbon once again, congrats!

I hope you get them better where they will win "evertime" you show one. They are my favorite out of all.


Your right GOOD breeders should have a good bunch of birds to sell or they too would not be in business long either and the ones they use as breeders should make for eggs that someone buys from them a pretty good bird to start out with. Maybe not a show winner right out of the gate or never or it may be a Grand champion show-bird too. That is the reason a lot of good breeders don't want to or will not sell an egg(s) is that one Champion might get sold to someone else (slip past the screen and out of their hands) and that right there makes for a whole bunch of good sense to me, also.

Folks can get good stock from hatched eggs(especially if the breeder is worth his salt) and I don't expect it to be everybody's way of going about getting stock, but too it works, has for a lot of folks. It is how those NHs you are winning with got here, by eggs brought in under the radar from Germany, evidently from good breeders too

.

Jeff

I don't think I called them culls, but they should not be winning class champion yet. Hopefully the next batch will be even better than the first batch of last year. These are kathyinmo birds. She has much better birds at her place than I have here, but we will see if we can make some without stubs. This is what Bob talks about......I will have the same line, but more than likely I will put my own spin on them. I showed them last year just to see how they would place in a real show. Kathy sent me some chicks this year and I bred the ones I had, so I have a pretty good flock growing out now and I have split them with a friend down the street, eggs to another BYC person and a fellow that Bob knows (Ken Duvall). So I'm trying to make the western NH's competative. If I had been judging those shows I wouldn't have won as much, but I'll take the wins as I am a point chaser........lol ......It also shows that a person can win with a lesser bird if they know how to lay them down in a show. A well conditioned/trained chicken can beat a better bird that is a bit out of condition. By condition I'm not just talking about feathers.

Walt

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Well, there's a lot going on here today. A lot of steam being blown off, and that's ok. Sometimes we need to blow off steam. The difficulty with a thread like this, which is of course its strength, is that it is a teaching thread, and teaching isn't easy. It's also hard when there are multiple teachers, TA's etc.... So, just to make it simpler...here's my whistle:

There advantages and disadvantages to all things, and one can set to do whatever one wants, but there are aspects that will dictate outcome, which are independent of mere will or dream. One can do really hard things, but one actually has to do them. Bob is calling for caution, and his tone might be leaning towards "try an easier way", but he's not saying don't do it; rather, know clearly what's coming. Working with rare breeds, if you're actually going to fix them, is a huge time and money investment. Our Dorkings are really coming along, and I'm excited about what I see happening this year. My goal is to have 8 to 12 breeders for next year. I was just going through my notes. In the last four years I have hatched one-thousand one-hundred twelve Dorkings...1,112(!) and all of them are leading to these 8 to 12 birds. There's a judge in the area that raises Australorps, about 20 a year, and she regularly takes top honors. It's not unlikely for me to think that I shall have to hatch 500-1000 more chicks just to consistently compete with her. Will it be another 2.000 chicks before I beat her? In the time that it takes me to raise 2, 000 chicks, will she have raised 100-150 Australorps? These are real considerations. I'm all about tackling the rare breeds and going for it, but you've got to be clear on what your limits are, and no amount of fantasy will undo the reality of years and years of necessary commitment and disciplined focus. I love it--YAY!!--but it's not easy and comes with real fiscal and time ramifications.

Choosing blue is fine, but it's a strong commitment to culling. If you only have room to raise a hundred chicks, that means hatching two-hundred, and culling 100 at the incubator door. Go for it, but are you up for it? If you're not up for it, that means 100 chicks really equals 50 chicks such that the ten-ish good reserve potentials are reduced to 5-ish. With plan A progress happens at a respectable pace; plan B is a Hail Mary Pass, and plan B costs just as much as plan A. I did, though, and do applaud the choice of Blue Orps and Blue Hamburgs, but nothing will make that an easy choice. Neither will anything make it a successful choice save the paths that lead to success. Neither of those varieties are common, luckily both can depend on the superior blacks at least for an original type set, but then color is to come, and won't be easy. I don't, certainly and of course, say this with gloom and doom, I raise RC Anconas, and blue isn't mottling, but neither do I make light of it, pretending that good progress will come hatching 20 of each variety a year--I raise RC Anconas; it's just not the way the cookie crumbles.

I, too, believe in following one's heart, but some trails will lead to more fun that others. It always saddens me when beginners start out with a bird outside of the SOP: English Orps, Fayoumi, sundry ridiculousness from Greenfire Farms, what have you, because they're dead ends. That dead-end might be one's backyard, and it might be full of enjoyment, and that's cool. The difficulty is that newbies don't really know whether that's as far as they want to go, for they've never been before, and choosing a bird like that means, if the desire does come to take it farther, the person will have to begin from scratch with another bird. You only live once, why set yourself up for limitation right from the get-go. Even more so, I find it tragic that breeders set newbies up with these birds, knowing that they've curtailed the full spectrum of poultry fun for a virgin who's never tasted it yet.

Which brings me to another topic, namely this notion of "I'm not going to show.", or, perhaps, even stranger: "I'm not going to show, but I'm going to breed to the SOP." That's like learning Italian, but never going to Italy! What's up with that? Showing's only about winning, if you make it about winning. Showing's just plain fun. It's like the old spiritual revivals, you go, get some religion, get pumped, and return ready to commit even more deeply to the goal. I never cull more clearly, more exactly, than right after a show, and just when I think that I can't live if I don't get that extra breed, I go to a show, and realize I need to be focused on where I'm at. Shows literally are the school of breeders; they are where you learn how to be a breeder. Unless you have a judge going over your birds with you a few times a year, and put on cookouts for fellow more experienced breeders to come go over your birds, your not going to get there unless you go to shows. Even then you're not going to get there because you need to stare at birds way better than yours for hours, studying how you're going to transpose such and such a quality on your own stock. Besides, did I mention it's muy muy fun!

OK...the water's run dry, time to get off the flame lest I melt.

 

[BGMatt]

I agree on all those points, lots of good advice. Right there with you on the non-standard stuff too.

 

[fowlman01]

I saw in the poultry press where another of the cull NH hens (you say aren't your cup of tea or aren't right on cue) has won you a pretty top honor/ribbon once again, congrats!

I hope you get them better where they will win "evertime" you show one. They are my favorite out of all.


Your right GOOD breeders should have a good bunch of birds to sell or they too would not be in business long either and the ones they use as breeders should make for eggs that someone buys from them a pretty good bird to start out with. Maybe not a show winner right out of the gate or never or it may be a Grand champion show-bird too. That is the reason a lot of good breeders don't want to or will not sell an egg(s) is that one Champion might get sold to someone else (slip past the screen and out of their hands) and that right there makes for a whole bunch of good sense to me, also.

Folks can get good stock from hatched eggs(especially if the breeder is worth his salt) and I don't expect it to be everybody's way of going about getting stock, but too it works, has for a lot of folks. It is how those NHs you are winning with got here, by eggs brought in under the radar from Germany, evidently from good breeders too

.

Jeff

If I didn't enjoy shows I wouldn't go. I enjoy the input from my peers and there is no better place to learn chickens than in a motel room with some drunk poultry breeders......lol I have been doing this for so long and have met so many fine people....I have fun at shows. People helped me a lot at shows and I am still learning. Even if you don't have a bird in the show, you can learn a lot at a show.

Walt

 

[Yellow House Farm]

there is no better place to learn chickens than in a motel room with some drunk poultry breeders......

You speak the truth! We always do leave that fine tidbit off the show description. There's the evening at the hotel bar talking chicken having a blast, sipping whatever, and laughing a lot. Yes, I'm very glad of the fine folks I've met.

 

[thedragonlady]

Well, there's a lot going on here today. A lot of steam being blown off, and that's ok. Sometimes we need to blow off steam. The difficulty with a thread like this, which is of course its strength, is that it is a teaching thread, and teaching isn't easy. It's also hard when there are multiple teachers, TA's etc.... So, just to make it simpler...here's my whistle:

There advantages and disadvantages to all things, and one can set to do whatever one wants, but there are aspects that will dictate outcome, which are independent of mere will or dream. One can do really hard things, but one actually has to do them. Bob is calling for caution, and his tone might be leaning towards "try an easier way", but he's not saying don't do it; rather, know clearly what's coming. Working with rare breeds, if you're actually going to fix them, is a huge time and money investment. Our Dorkings are really coming along, and I'm excited about what I see happening this year. My goal is to have 8 to 12 breeders for next year. I was just going through my notes. In the last four years I have hatched one-thousand one-hundred twelve Dorkings...1,112(!) and all of them are leading to these 8 to 12 birds. There's a judge in the area that raises Australorps, about 20 a year, and she regularly takes top honors. It's not unlikely for me to think that I shall have to hatch 500-1000 more chicks just to consistently compete with her. Will it be another 2.000 chicks before I beat her? In the time that it takes me to raise 2, 000 chicks, will she have raised 100-150 Australorps? These are real considerations. I'm all about tackling the rare breeds and going for it, but you've got to be clear on what your limits are, and no amount of fantasy will undo the reality of years and years of necessary commitment and disciplined focus. I love it--YAY!!--but it's not easy and comes with real fiscal and time ramifications.

Choosing blue is fine, but it's a strong commitment to culling. If you only have room to raise a hundred chicks, that means hatching two-hundred, and culling 100 at the incubator door. Go for it, but are you up for it? If you're not up for it, that means 100 chicks really equals 50 chicks such that the ten-ish good reserve potentials are reduced to 5-ish. With plan A progress happens at a respectable pace; plan B is a Hail Mary Pass, and plan B costs just as much as plan A. I did, though, and do applaud the choice of Blue Orps and Blue Hamburgs, but nothing will make that an easy choice. Neither will anything make it a successful choice save the paths that lead to success. Neither of those varieties are common, luckily both can depend on the superior blacks at least for an original type set, but then color is to come, and won't be easy. I don't, certainly and of course, say this with gloom and doom, I raise RC Anconas, and blue isn't mottling, but neither do I make light of it, pretending that good progress will come hatching 20 of each variety a year--I raise RC Anconas; it's just not the way the cookie crumbles.

I, too, believe in following one's heart, but some trails will lead to more fun that others. It always saddens me when beginners start out with a bird outside of the SOP: English Orps, Fayoumi, sundry ridiculousness from Greenfire Farms, what have you, because they're dead ends. That dead-end might be one's backyard, and it might be full of enjoyment, and that's cool. The difficulty is that newbies don't really know whether that's as far as they want to go, for they've never been before, and choosing a bird like that means, if the desire does come to take it farther, the person will have to begin from scratch with another bird. You only live once, why set yourself up for limitation right from the get-go. Even more so, I find it tragic that breeders set newbies up with these birds, knowing that they've curtailed the full spectrum of poultry fun for a virgin who's never tasted it yet.

Which brings me to another topic, namely this notion of "I'm not going to show.", or, perhaps, even stranger: "I'm not going to show, but I'm going to breed to the SOP." That's like learning Italian, but never going to Italy! What's up with that? Showing's only about winning, if you make it about winning. Showing's just plain fun. It's like the old spiritual revivals, you go, get some religion, get pumped, and return ready to commit even more deeply to the goal. I never cull more clearly, more exactly, than right after a show, and just when I think that I can't live if I don't get that extra breed, I go to a show, and realize I need to be focused on where I'm at. Shows literally are the school of breeders; they are where you learn how to be a breeder. Unless you have a judge going over your birds with you a few times a year, and put on cookouts for fellow more experienced breeders to come go over your birds, your not going to get there unless you go to shows. Even then you're not going to get there because you need to stare at birds way better than yours for hours, studying how you're going to transpose such and such a quality on your own stock. Besides, did I mention it's muy muy fun!

OK...the water's run dry, time to get off the flame lest I melt.

I agree with you about the new/ weirdo breeds being foisted off on new comers. I do NOT agree about the English Orps. in SOP colors, that have been imported. These birds have provided a valuable source of new blood , from the original source, to the breed. US Orps suffered through the first World War, just after they had been recognized. Then the APA standard was changed after WW1 to better accommodate what was being bred.Rock and Wyandotte were added here, Cochin in the UK. Our 2 standards are really very similar. What is winning in both US and British shows is not. If one reads and understands both Standards, you will find that the English Orps who fit the British Standard, are a much better go-to than Rocks or Wyandottes.

I could not be more pleased with my crosses to the English birds. The proof will be in the pudding this year, when they hit the shows.Having shown more than a few birds, I don't think I'll be too disappointed.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

I could not be more pleased with my crosses to the English birds. The proof will be in the pudding this year, when they hit the shows.Having shown more than a few birds, I don't think I'll be too disappointed.

Oh, that makes perfect sense that they would be of value as an outcross for a grading project to the American Standard.