Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[Jwhip]

So Matt should I just put these guy's in the freezer.

 

[Pozees]

Karen, I am currently having an argument with myself, about vaccinating for Marek's, and was never a proponent of annual boosters in dogs, so I understand your state of uncertainty.

Any hatchery chicks I've bought, I've had vaccinated for Marek's. Any chicks I hatched here or bought from breeders, are not vaccinated. I have lost 2 Albritton Sussex to Marek's in the last two weeks, and tonight noticed a pullet looking poorly. Obviously it is too late to vaccinate these birds, so there is no conflict there, as they will or will not survive. Get from the surviving birds will presumably be more immune than those which may have descended from the victims, had they been vaccinated. Marek's is in the area - not just immediate, the general locale - so, what to do next year when I begin setting their eggs? I have yet to locate vaccine for small numbers, if I decide that is what I want to do.

I generally think our birds need to have natural vigor, inborn resistance to disease, else why perpetuate the line? At the same time, I have an investment I want to protect, birds I strongly prefer not to lose to preventable disease. Where is the line?

 

[Matt1616]

Jeremy, I'm not a fan of judging a bird by a picture but looking at those 3 pictures and assuming they are all 3 the same age I would probably cull the bird in the 3rd picture. The bird in the first picture has the best tail structure, the bird in the second picture has the best chest and top line but looks to have a break in the tail and to much red in the tail. I think 1st and 2nd picture are something to work with. 3rd picture has to much wrong to list.
Like is said, going by pictures can be very deceiving. I may feel completely different if I seen and handled the birds in person.

 

[cluck-cluck]

Cluck-cluck, I think the first thing that you should know is that the theory of hatching 100-200 chicks of a breed to get a few good ones only applies to certain situations. I could name many very successful show people that hatch only 20-25 chicks per breed each year. If you start out with a line that is very good you don't have to hatch those numbers. If you dive off into a project like Kathy did with the Delwares or like several of us have done with the New Hampshire and you cross strains within a breed or even more so cross breeds then you will be in a situation where you would have to hatch more chicks so that you would increase your chances of getting something to work with. There are also certain breeds that don't breed as true as others and even strains within the same breed that you would have to hatch more.
So in conclusion...there is not a hard fast answer to your question. It depends on what you are going to do with them, what breed, what line within a breed, etc.
That is probably as clear as mud but I hope this helps.

Yes, I do understand, thank you! Unfortunately, my breed of choice is in bad shape. I'm still hoping to get some birds from a member here, who seems to be the only breeder around aside from D. Urch. At the moment, my plan is to mix lines from different hatchery stock to see what I can do with them until the lady I'd like to purchase from is ready. Maybe something good will pop up until then? Anyway, I'm shocked at the differences in the chicks between the two hatcheries!. My last batch of crevecoeur chicks hardly had any bump on their heads, the vaulted skull thing.. I've read both that the creve should have a vaulted skull as well as that it shouldn't be as large as those of polish chickens. But the contrast to the chicks I bought this year is amazing! These have strongly vaulted skulls and their down is black and charcoal, whereas last year's batch were typical penguin.. I know what I want them to look like, so I'm starting from scratch, mixing it up next year to see if I can't hatch something closer to the standard. Of course I'm going to try and make pairings that complement each other, still, it's going to be a long road, where I fully expect to make mistakes!

I guess there are no clear guidelines and that I will need to learn as much genetics as I can then follow my gut? I have read about the different breeding systems, and have chosen the "spiral" system with 3 core groups. Hopefully in 8 generations or so, I will have a homogeneous SOP line I can be proud of, or I'll fail, LOL. Hopefully I'll learn and have fun along the way

Still, if any of you can share your point of views, please share! I'm still in the planning stages, and have two more coops to build now! A grow out pen/coop and a rooster coop. That'll take me a while

 

[desertmarcy]

On the liverwurst... (I tried to quote it but lost it) can you give me your opinion of liver in any other fashion to see if we agree? Then I'll know if your recipe is something I might be willing to try. Thanks.

Hey, I'm behind too on this thread. Do you mean, is there any other way that I like liver? Yuck, NO

The only way I have ever liked liver is in liverwurst. I remember when I was a starving first time home buyer, lived on beans and weiners and cheap 4 for $1 pot pies so I could pay the mortgage. Liverwurst was a really cheap food back them. Don't know when/why/how but one day I looked at it in the grocery store and it had more than doubled in price! I haven't bought it in literally decades, then found that recipe on line. Just made another batch tonight. Only had 12 ounces of livers, so just adjusted the spices accordingly. If you have a stick blender, I found that the easiest way to puree it after cooking.

 

[Lacy Blues]

Karen, I am currently having an argument with myself, about vaccinating for Marek's, and was never a proponent of annual boosters in dogs, so I understand your state of uncertainty.

Any hatchery chicks I've bought, I've had vaccinated for Marek's. Any chicks I hatched here or bought from breeders, are not vaccinated. I have lost 2 Albritton Sussex to Marek's in the last two weeks, and tonight noticed a pullet looking poorly. Obviously it is too late to vaccinate these birds, so there is no conflict there, as they will or will not survive. Get from the surviving birds will presumably be more immune than those which may have descended from the victims, had they been vaccinated. Marek's is in the area - not just immediate, the general locale - so, what to do next year when I begin setting their eggs? I have yet to locate vaccine for small numbers, if I decide that is what I want to do.

I generally think our birds need to have natural vigor, inborn resistance to disease, else why perpetuate the line? At the same time, I have an investment I want to protect, birds I strongly prefer not to lose to preventable disease. Where is the line?

I am not one to vaccinate either. I posted quite a while back and I'm not even sure it was on this thread but I'll type it out again.

Turkeys carry a strain of Mareks disease. If you get some turkeys or know someone who has them or know a 4H kid who buys them from an NPIP supplier for his meat project, you can probably get bags of manure and bedding from these people. A chicken, running with turkeys will catch their form of Mareks and it is so slight, you won't even notice they have it. Anyway, they survive this disease and it makes them immune to the chicken form of Mareks.

I know this works. My first year of raising babies, I lost an entire hatch to mareks disease. The next year, I got bags of what was cleaned out of a 4H kid's coop once he finished raising his turkeys for fair. I spread it around in my chicken yards (I was terrified while doing this as I was completely familiar with "bio diversity" and its prevention practices. I fully expected to come out the next morning and find all my birds dead, having bled out from every orifice! They didn't though. The next year, I had no issues with Mareks at all and that has been several years. I have not had one bird come down with Mareks since and I think I'm going into my 9th year of breeding Andalusians.

 

[Jwhip]

Jeremy, I'm not a fan of judging a bird by a picture but looking at those 3 pictures and assuming they are all 3 the same age I would probably cull the bird in the 3rd picture. The bird in the first picture has the best tail structure, the bird in the second picture has the best chest and top line but looks to have a break in the tail and to much red in the tail. I think 1st and 2nd picture are something to work with. 3rd picture has to much wrong to list.
Like is said, going by pictures can be very deceiving. I may feel completely different if I seen and handled the birds in person.

Thanks for the input. It is hard to judge by a picture for sure. If you handled the 3rd male you would think different and his tail is still growing. Does the color look right to you in all three males? Anybody?

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Jeremy, how are the White Dorkings coming?

 

[cbnovick]

Thanks for the input. It is hard to judge by a picture for sure. If you handled the 3rd male you would think different and his tail is still growing. Does the color look right to you in all three males? Anybody?

Jeremy,

F1 cross offspring are interesting and the most challenging in terms of where to go next IMHO.

In my previous post, I stated that the 1st male has the best tail in terms of color and angle...it seems to join better without breaking the topline (based on the SOP) which by my observations seems to be one of the most common faults in the NH.

He has a decent comb... although I can't tell if it follows the line of the head nicely due to the photo.

#1 male's color is good in this photo, despite shadowing from photo...

Overall, I feel #1 is the best of the 3 based on photos. I like the overall symmetry of his profile at first glance compared to the other 2 males.

His chest could be deeper, but he's young and this could certainly get better with time...he appears perhaps taller than the other 2? He may be slower to fill out than the other 2.

Any feather stubs on shanks with these males?

As you know, I hatched 22 of these...overall, got a better impression of the females with this cross...However there is one male that looks promising overall at 5 months.

It might be interesting to use #1 male with your best crossed females...AND use the original GNH male with his best crossed daughters too ???

that's my amateur 2 cents

Cindy

 

[har]

Cindy thanks for that post!! After seeing them rooster pictures I am really undecided which way to go with my NH.