Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[NanaKat]

Cant remember if it was this thread or another where someone asked for people to post pictures of their breed birds when butchered... But here are some I did this morning and yesterday. The three 7 month old cockerels on the 13 x 18 cookie sheet are left to right: Brahma (4 lb 2 0z) . Birchen Wyandotte (4 lb 4 oz) and Columbian Wyandotte (4 lb). before giblets tucked inside and bagging. Here are their giblets...healthy and pink Comparison: 4 lb Wyandotte cockerel next to a 6 lb Wyandotte rooster put up yesterday I like to age the birds 24 hours in the refrigerator before I vacuum seal them for the freezer. I also butchered an African gander yesterday that dressed out at 11 pounds. The gander is going into a salt brine today and will brine for two days and then be roasted.... It was moe! Thanks so much. 4 lbs at 7 months, that is longer than I thought. Appears to be similar to what I had last year if I had not culled at between 16 -19 weeks, mine came in at about 2 - 3 pounds tops and were hatchery birds and looked similar to yours, protruding breast bone, but some of mine were very lanky. Yours have an all around shape better than mine. At this age will they be tender enough to dry roast? I dry roasted a 19 week old sp. sussex last year that had a very savory short thigh! Anything in particular re: managment. Were they free ranged or kept in pens. High protein feed or layer feed? Thanks again, Mark

The birds were free ranged and fed a pelleted feed free choice. then penned for two weeks. December and January hatch on the three on the tray. the Brahma with the protruding breast bone was a trade for a pullet a friend wanted. The Wyandotte are progeny from my breeder pens this year. Yes they can be dry roasted. I do like to brine overnight before roasting...sea salt, rosemary, thyme, lemon, peppercorns, garlic, sage, onion and sometimes a little apple cider.

 

[MagicChicken]

This afternoon I noticed my largest cockerel standing with one foot curled. Turns out he has bumblefoot. So I checked everyone else. Virtually all of the cockerels have it to some degree, and a few of the pullets are also getting it. The heaviest birds have it the worst. On most of the birds it is in the middle of the foot pad on both feet. This tells me it is a flock management issue, and not due to random injuries from thorns. Prior to this Java flock I'd just had a few random laying hens. A breeding program requires more birds and my management style has not adequately adapted. I'd like some advice, particularly in regard to roost and litter management issues.

The birds have their choice of round dowel roosts or old weathered 2x4's on edge, with rounded edges. They prefer the 2x4's. All roosts are at the same height, about the same height as my kitchen countertop. The roosts are over a varying-depth litter, which is on top of a dirt floor. The litter is varying-depth because they tend to kick it into the corners and I have not been very persistent about re-distributing it on a regular basis. Which means that the center area, where they land when they jump down from the roosts, tends to be mostly bare dirt while the corners have a large accumulation of poo and litter. I do add more litter periodically, which they immediately kick into the corners. I mostly use pine shavings for litter.

I have read that perch heights should be 18" or lower for large birds in order to prevent bumblefoot. That seems awfully low, since these birds voluntarily roost several feet up in the bushes when they are outside. They have even roosted on top of the 8' high ramada. So it doesn't seem like an 18" roost in the coop/run would totally solve the problem.

Prior to this Java flock I had mongrel hens that were as heavy as many of my current birds. They had issues but bumblefoot was not one of them. They used the same roosts. The key difference is that I was not using deep litter at the time. I had dirt floors and I was scooping poo on a daily basis. It kept the coop/run clean but it was a lot of work. I switched to deep litter when I got more birds. Apparently my deep litter technique needs refinement.

There are now 10 cockerels in the 160 square foot space, which has been working well behavior-wise but maybe not so well in terms of litter management. Pullets and cockerels are housed separately. They get alternate days out.

My plan is to pull out the litter from the coop/run. Not sure if I should replace the litter or go back to dirt floors and scooping frequently. Next step is to cull down to my best three cockerels. (The thought of treating ten cockerels is overwhelming.) I will definitely give them lower perches until their feet are healed. I am hesitant to permanently lower the roosts because lower roosts will dramatically reduce the functional running-around space available to them when they are not roosting.

My long-term management goal is a healthy flock that does not require special treatment. Trying not to beat myself up for not catching this sooner. Now that I know about it it's time to fix it. But how?

Thanks for any advice you can give me.

Sarah

 

[NanaKat]

So the problem only shows up in the cockerel pen and not in the Pullet pen? What type of roost have you provided for the pullets that is different from the cockerel pen?
A roost at 18 inches still allows the birds to move beneath it and is less of a drop.
2x4 s with the flat side up gives a different surface for roosting that may help relieve some of the pressure points.
I have not used pine needle litter...but use pine shavings, leaves and chopped straw with no problems.
Will be interested in the comments by others.

 

[gjensen]

MagicChicken, what is their age?

 

[Apdeb]

I dont know how your coop is
But the design i saw and liked for large fowl was this ladys dutch shed she put two 36 inch high 12 inch wide shelves down both sides of coop roosts just 6 inches above shelf lines shelves with powdered sweet pdz and cleans poop out of pdz with a cat litter scoop
This allows her to have many chickens in smallcoop. The roost were 2 x 4 on sides length of shelf. Hope this helps
I am 50 all about saving your back!!!

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Are you sure it's bumblefoot? Is only one cockerel showing irritation? Your roosts aren't very high. On that, though, it's not that their "heavy" per se rather that their Cochinized. Brown eggers can't fly because their wings are too short. Dorkings on the other hand can fly up to a 6' roost without a blink. One year I had a problem when some pullets took to roosting in a clump of maples...and then the Dorkings followed. So, I grabbed the snips and snipped the branches off as far as I could reach. Up went the Anconas...and then incredulously I watched as the Dorkings, one by one, hit their mark. I was drop-jaw. The next day, out came the chain saw. They rediscovered their roosts indoors. Brown eggers have wings that are disproportionate to their size so they cannot make good use of them.

The deep litter question is tough one. In your current coop, what is the floor space, and how many birds are on that floor space? You could try lowering the roosts, but again, I don't hear counter height as being all that high. Coming down from the rafters, though, ....not too much.

As to how high they'll go, they don't know their wings don't work well. If branches are close enough to jump like a ladder, they'll actually go quite high and then hurt themselves coming down.

 

[aveca]

It is a staph infection ..pretty much grows everywhere..its a minor scratch could start it.

Bumble foot, or Ulcerative pododermatitis, is a painful ulceration and infection of the footpad. It often appears when ducks or geese are maintained on hard and/or poorly sanitized surfaces. Pressure points on their foot pads, and sometimes on their toe joints, become calloused. Fluids build up between the callous and the underlying tissue. Friction from walking increases inflammation and causes further pressure. Eventually the callous cracks and the fluid leaks out. This splitting of the skin then allows bacteria (commonly staphylococcus aureus) into the site, which leads to infection.
Left untreated, bumble foot can be deadly. Vet intervention is required. Bumble foot can lead to osteomyelitis (infection of the bone).
Treatment
Baytril is the most effective and safe antibiotic for remedying this ailment. Many of our Majestic rescues have come to us with this type of foot ailment. One pill of 22mg Baytril is administered daily until the swelling disappears and any black scabs are no longer prevalent. This can range from a few weeks to a few months of intervention. Some vets will also recommend foot washes/antiseptics.
It is vital that grounds remain soft, dry and clean in order to prevent recurrence. Access to clean swimming water is highly recommended to expedite recovery.
Prevention
The best way to prevent Bumblefoot is to maintain clean pens for your flock. Do not keep them on hard-packed surfaces. Pens should be kept clean and their grounds should be soft with grass, hay or sand. Avoid constantly wet surfaces—they should have free access to dry areas.
Since the bacteria staphylococcus aureus tends to be prevalent among chickens, many vets will recommend that you house your chickens and ducks in separate pens to reduce the risk of infection.​

 

[aveca]

doub

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Deep litter seems to mean different things to different people. In theory, it is the piling of new shavings on old shaving, creating a new layer of bedding. It's great for waterfowl that don't scratch; thus, the top, new layer remains the top, new layer. I wouldn't do it for chickens. If your birds aren't overcrowded, four or five inches of shavings should last for a season or so, then out with old and in with the new.

 

[Pathfinders]

When we built our first big coop, we used plans in one of Gail Damerow's books. I don't have a pic handy but this is similar to how we set it up:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/568931/how-much-roosting-space-per-chicken#post_7359517

I second the notion to put the 2 x 4s with the flat sides up, and if you can, route the edges off so they're rounded, not square. Giving birds a stair-stepping sort of way to go up and down can prevent bumblefoot somewhat, but if so many of them have it, it does sound like you may need to disinfect the area, as staph might be overly present.

Oddly, I only ever see it in my Leghorns, not the Buckeyes, which are much heavier (and who have no problem flying right off the roost past my head onto the grass!)

This is the pic from that thread, ours is similar, but the roosts go all the way across and are bolted to the walls: