Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[Extra Java]

I wanted to post these to pictures together to compare color. Trying to locate matts 1616 male but my eyes are playing tricks on me this am so will look latter. This will give us a good comparison to the old USA and the New German color and then the Standard of Perfection Picture from the APA Standard. Bob

I can't tell you how much I've learned from this post. When you line all of these photos up against one another, it says so much. What a brilliant idea. I will be taking photos of my birds and check them against the SOP using this method.

I also learned a tremendous amount from your previous post that actually contained a blacked-out silhouette. I can still see that particular image in my mind! And the upside down derby hat description made me find more culls!

Thank you.

 

[3riverschick]

Quote: I would really like to know how to do this. I haven't been able to find the info online.
I know how to mate for a darker hackle, but not how to actually move it on the neck.
Thanks,
Karen

 

[BGMatt]

I would really like to know how to do this. I haven't been able to find the info online.
 I know how to mate for a darker hackle, but not how to actually move it on the neck.
 Thanks,
 Karen

From experience with light brahmas, just select by phenotype. If you want to move the coloring up, select birds that have it the highest and they should produce a few that have it higher, and then breed from those, and so on and so on.

 

[thedragonlady]

I would really like to know how to do this. I haven't been able to find the info online.
I know how to mate for a darker hackle, but not how to actually move it on the neck.
Thanks,
Karen

Selection is key if you want to add it to your line. Keep selecting birds with higher hackle markings. If you keep a low hackle bird in the line , it will weaken it. Just go up by increments, but do not sacrifice type for color......EVER !

 

[snowbird]

I think that all of these posts are undercolor related. If you do not have the proper undercolor you might as well use fowl with no markings

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

I think that all of these posts are undercolor related. If you do not have the proper undercolor you might as well use fowl with no markings

Don

On undercolor...is the butt fluff a good indicator of the undercolor or can it be radically different than the color at the base of the feather? Reason I ask is that my best looking pullet for color has very white butt fluff and thus I've never really looked at the base of the feathers on her (....an assumption on my part obviously, and you know where assumptions get ya), this could be a learning lesson for me here

Thanks

 

[galanie]

I don't have the slightest idea. But I'm betting money that the answer is.. Then look at the underfluff.

 

[gjensen]

Don

On under color...is the butt fluff a good indicator of the under color or can it be radically different than the color at the base of the feather? Reason I ask is that my best looking pullet for color has very white butt fluff and thus I've never really looked at the base of the feathers on her (....an assumption on my part obviously, and you know where assumptions get ya), this could be a learning lesson for me here

Thanks

Not in my birds. I have to pick mine up and handle them to see their under color.

I got stuck on the under color of my Catalanas this year. All of my starter birds had a smutty under color less one. Obviously this was seen in the offspring. The under color that I am dealing with is a smutty under color. In my birds the degree of smoky under color is seen on the outside with excessive black. My darker birds with too much black have the smuttiest under color, but this is not evident in the "butt fluff".
I tolerated some degree of the smoky under color in the females. I had to. I did get out all of the females with a lot of black, were excessively red (dark), and with a lot of smoky under color. I am eyeing the rest (17) for type alone.
The males, I was not as forgiving. I hatched two without a smutty under color. One with a little. Fortunately, it looks like proportionally they will have relatively good Catalana type (relative to what I have to compare to). Trying to get the Minorca typed birds out of the picture. Out of 45-50 males the three is all I have left, and one is likely to go. These have a buff under color, though it is too light. I guess with buff, you are looking for depth of color that carries all the way through. Not like the NH where the under color is lighter than the outer color.
Anyways, the summary for me is the under color is related to the outer color. I am wondering if the restriction of black in these birds (or lack of) is seen on the outside and under. Where I can imagine having a problem in the future is not having enough black. I can see cockerels without enough black in their tail feathers, etc.

The old Rhode Island Red breeders figured all of this out. The too much black, not enough black. Guessing that is where the black in the wing feather standard comes from etc. Too much or not enough. They spoke some of smutty under color, and even when to use it. Their birds are a lot darker than what I have though.
My secondary point is that a lot of this seams related. Where it is hard to find information on our particular color, we can find the things common in other breeds and varieties.

I can certainly see why it is commonly recommended to stick with single color birds, or with birds that have already been perfected to a large degree. Every point to work on means more chicks too hatch in my eyes. Especially starting with a challenge to begin with. I can see hatching 200 Catalanas before the end of next spring. I am still hoping on a fall hatch.

On the other issue, Karen, it seams to be a matter of putting pressure on that point when you feel the birds are ready.

 

[3riverschick]

Quote: Thank you all,
That's what I was wondering. Now I know it is not a color balancing issue, but a phenotype issue.
Thanks,
Karen

 

[snowbird]

Don

On undercolor...is the butt fluff a good indicator of the undercolor or can it be radically different than the color at the base of the feather? Reason I ask is that my best looking pullet for color has very white butt fluff and thus I've never really looked at the base of the feathers on her (....an assumption on my part obviously, and you know where assumptions get ya), this could be a learning lesson for me here

Thanks

The best place to check the undercolor on the Columbian is open up the back feathers and it will show what you really are working with.