Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[thedragonlady]

Got a phone call from one of my fellows who I am helping with my old white rock large fowl line. He explained what he wanted to do this coming spring after he locates the chosen ckl or two and two good pullets from about 40 chick's he hatched. Now these males when they grow up are going to be as good as their sire or maybe a half a point better. His sire is a great one and is true to breed and to my old strain. So he said I planed to mate one or two of his daughters to him and then hatch them and raise them up just like this year and pick the super top pullets the cream of the cream in type ect back to their sire again the next season. This chart kind of shows how you just drop down each year and mate the best say daughters back to the sire each year for thee or four years. You are fixing the traits from this great male and hopefully when you get to the third year or fourth his sons are better than his.

Now he says he is going to have over in another chicken house a hen that he loves and mate her to the best ckl and then raise the best males up and pick the male that is really super nice maybe better than the sire that I just talked about in the above paragraph and do this again for three years. Again we are going to be getting also super females from this mating and males.

Got a phone call from one of my fellows who I am helping with my old white rock large fowl line. He explained what he wanted to do this coming spring after he locates the chosen ckl or two and two good pullets from about 40 chick's he hatched. Now these males when they grow up are going to be as good as their sire or maybe a half a point better. His sire is a great one and is true to breed and to my old strain. So he said I planned to mate one or two of his daughters to him and then hatch them and raise them up just like this year and pick the super top pullets the cream of the cream in type ect back to their sire again the next season. This chart kind of shows how you just drop down each year and mate the best say daughters back to the sire each year for three or four years. You are fixing the traits from this great male and hopefully when you get to the third year or fourth his sons are better than his.

Now he says he is going to have over in another chicken house a hen that he loves and mate her to the best ckl and then raise the best males up and pick the male that is really super nice maybe better than the sire that I just talked about in the above paragraph and do this again for three years. Again we are going to be getting also super females from this mating and males to.

Now after three or four years of breeding the best off spring back to these original pair we need to find something else to breed. We can take the best pullet from the male line and the best cockerel from the hen line and cross the two together and start all over again. That’s kind of what that completed Fletch chart is telling you to do and I agree its complicate to follow but this is what I am going to do.

Next you don’t put all your eggs in one basket. How about having a male and female line going somewhere else on your property You can go over an get a good male from them and cross them over onto a pen two female line male or female whatever you want to do. Then pound away again for the years like that.
​

I hope that clears up a simple system for two or four good birds. Keep it simple and it will work. What are the traits you are looking for Vigor, type then color? That is what my friend is going to do with his White Plymouth Rocks.
He does however have spare birds at his brothers yard five miles away that he can go back and get if he has a loss or finds a great bird that molts back say at two years and wants to breed from them. This way he can focus on a hand full of birds four or six and then raise the chicks which are about 40 per year. The goal is to only breed from the very very best and try to keep chicks that might be a little better a point or so better each year than what he started with. That’s what I call breeding upwards. Go slow go slow and go down the middle of the road approach. Hope this clears this up. Please try to make it simple if you are a beginner. Don’t get caught up with a lot of stuff. Get you some good chicken feed, give them fresh water and take good care of them. It’s not all that hard.

Had to edit this I lost my battery power and had to go back in and log in and forgot my pass word. bob

Bob,
This is exactly what I did to create my buff Silkies 30 years ago. I only used one male for 5 generations. The Santa Gertrudis cattle breed is a pretty good example of the power of this kind of breeding.One bull for 5 generations. You must start with a good bird.

 

[Robert Blosl]

Quote:

Quote: This chart came from a canary bird breeders chart ten years ago. It shows the downward move of the birds off spring. If someone could re do this chart to a three or four year chart it would be better. I think three years is good. The male is my biggest worry if he will be fertile or not at that age. Also, the females will or should be hatched in Jan or Feb in my view so when they are mated to their sire they should be laying at least three months which should be fine. This is just a simple beginner method. You have a choice just put them together take your chances or find a line breeding method you want to use. Most people don't have a method one they get screwed up and they are out of chickens in three to five years. I have heard of breeders getting three generations in two years breeding young birds fast to their mates. If that is what you want to do go for it.

For me I want just a mature birds at least ten months old. I really want in five years to breed from only year olds that have gone through their molt but on my new witch hunt for better heads this year I am going to use ten month olds mated back to their parents until my line has the heads I want and the type that I want. Then in three years I will try to take these birds and shrink them down two more oz to what I want in five years. I am a mad scientist. Don't just follow what I may do.

I tried to show you a simple system for beginners I have at least two or three that are doing this and they only have to hatch 40 chicks per year from a hand full of very special very typed good large fowl. Some of you have breeds that are not as loaded in the gene pool dept and may have to hatch more to get a few good birds. Feed is to expensive and I cant afford to hatch and raise 100 to 150 chicks to get a hand full of good birds. That is why it is important to get the very best you can find that score the highest in quality you can get to save you time and money. Hope I cleared this up some.

 

[NanaKat]

Like Bob said, Had to hatch more chicks to get nice birds to keep for breeding next year. And feeding out nearly 300 chicks to juvenile stage before culling was a big bite in the pocketbook. It was worth it though..for the keepers and for the experience as well as the knowledge gained in the process. Sure appreciate all the links to books and old time breeders.

 

[Chickens Naturally]

Yeah don't post that one up on here or you'll not hear the end of it believe me I took it off quickly. I opened up a wasps nest and can of worms all in one whack on that move. LOL

Jeff

Jeff apparently it’s coming natural for me, lol, par for the course!

 

[Chickens Naturally]

This chart came from a canary bird breeders chart ten years ago. It shows the downward move of the birds off spring. If someone could re do this chart to a three or four year chart it would be better. I think three years is good. The male is my biggest worry if he will be fertile or not at that age. Also, the females will or should be hatched in Jan or Feb in my view so when they are mated to their sire they should be laying at least three months which should be fine. This is just a simple beginner method. You have a choice just put them together take your chances or find a line breeding method you want to use. Most people don't have a method one they get screwed up and they are out of chickens in three to five years. I have heard of breeders getting three generations in two years breeding young birds fast to their mates. If that is what you want to do go for it.

For me I want just a mature birds at least ten months old. I really want in five years to breed from only year olds that have gone through their molt but on my new witch hunt for better heads this year I am going to use ten month olds mated back to their parents until my line has the heads I want and the type that I want. Then in three years I will try to take these birds and shrink them down two more oz to what I want in five years. I am a mad scientist. Don't just follow what I may do.

I tried to show you a simple system for beginners I have at least two or three that are doing this and they only have to hatch 40 chicks per year from a hand full of very special very typed good large fowl. Some of you have breeds that are not as loaded in the gene pool dept and may have to hatch more to get a few good birds. Feed is to expensive and I cant afford to hatch and raise 100 to 150 chicks to get a hand full of good birds. That is why it is important to get the very best you can find that score the highest in quality you can get to save you time and money. Hope I cleared this up some.

Until I had an exceptional hen and roo I would practice complimentary mating and that's when it might help to put a lot on the ground if you can because your looking to 'fix' these traits. When I got those two, I still wouldn’t do it unless the rooster was full of vigor. If I had room and it wasn’t a problem I would also start a second family. Three generations in and one out with two families and there’s plenty to out too.

Bob I didn't know you were in the hospital I hope you get back on that top shelf soon!
Mitch

 

[lualshannon]

Got a phone call from one of my fellows who I am helping with my old white rock large fowl line. He explained what he wanted to do this coming spring after he locates the chosen ckl or two and two good pullets from about 40 chick's he hatched. Now these males when they grow up are going to be as good as their sire or maybe a half a point better. His sire is a great one and is true to breed and to my old strain. So he said I planed to mate one or two of his daughters to him and then hatch them and raise them up just like this year and pick the super top pullets the cream of the cream in type ect back to their sire again the next season. This chart kind of shows how you just drop down each year and mate the best say daughters back to the sire each year for thee or four years. You are fixing the traits from this great male and hopefully when you get to the third year or fourth his sons are better than his.

Now he says he is going to have over in another chicken house a hen that he loves and mate her to the best ckl and then raise the best males up and pick the male that is really super nice maybe better than the sire that I just talked about in the above paragraph and do this again for three years. Again we are going to be getting also super females from this mating and males.

Got a phone call from one of my fellows who I am helping with my old white rock large fowl line. He explained what he wanted to do this coming spring after he locates the chosen ckl or two and two good pullets from about 40 chick's he hatched. Now these males when they grow up are going to be as good as their sire or maybe a half a point better. His sire is a great one and is true to breed and to my old strain. So he said I planned to mate one or two of his daughters to him and then hatch them and raise them up just like this year and pick the super top pullets the cream of the cream in type ect back to their sire again the next season. This chart kind of shows how you just drop down each year and mate the best say daughters back to the sire each year for three or four years. You are fixing the traits from this great male and hopefully when you get to the third year or fourth his sons are better than his.

Now he says he is going to have over in another chicken house a hen that he loves and mate her to the best ckl and then raise the best males up and pick the male that is really super nice maybe better than the sire that I just talked about in the above paragraph and do this again for three years. Again we are going to be getting also super females from this mating and males to.

Now after three or four years of breeding the best off spring back to these original pair we need to find something else to breed. We can take the best pullet from the male line and the best cockerel from the hen line and cross the two together and start all over again. That’s kind of what that completed Fletch chart is telling you to do and I agree its complicate to follow but this is what I am going to do.

Next you don’t put all your eggs in one basket. How about having a male and female line going somewhere else on your property You can go over an get a good male from them and cross them over onto a pen two female line male or female whatever you want to do. Then pound away again for the years like that.
​

I hope that clears up a simple system for two or four good birds. Keep it simple and it will work. What are the traits you are looking for Vigor, type then color? That is what my friend is going to do with his White Plymouth Rocks.
He does however have spare birds at his brothers yard five miles away that he can go back and get if he has a loss or finds a great bird that molts back say at two years and wants to breed from them. This way he can focus on a hand full of birds four or six and then raise the chicks which are about 40 per year. The goal is to only breed from the very very best and try to keep chicks that might be a little better a point or so better each year than what he started with. That’s what I call breeding upwards. Go slow go slow and go down the middle of the road approach. Hope this clears this up. Please try to make it simple if you are a beginner. Don’t get caught up with a lot of stuff. Get you some good chicken feed, give them fresh water and take good care of them. It’s not all that hard.

Had to edit this I lost my battery power and had to go back in and log in and forgot my pass word. bob

Three generations of inbreeding is a frightening thought for me. Like genes attract each other; as well as strengthening the desirable virtues, one would be doing the same on the weaknesses. Unfortunately, the weaknesses seem to show more strength when doubled up on. How does one work around this dilemma? With line breeding, one has a bit of space/ chance to to play around with; but, when it comes to inbreeding, it is quite a dangerous tight, narrow line.
Lual

 

[Chickens Naturally]

Three generations of inbreeding is a frightening thought for me. Like genes attract each other; as well as strengthening the desirable virtues, one would be doing the same on the weaknesses. Unfortunately, the weaknesses seem to show more strength when doubled up on. How does one work around this dilemma? With line breeding, one has a bit of space/ chance to to play around with; but, when it comes to inbreeding, it is quite a dangerous tight, narrow line.
Lual

http://ultimatefowl.com/wiki/index.php?title=Line_Breeding

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Like Bob said, Had to hatch more chicks to get nice birds to keep for breeding next year. And feeding out nearly 300 chicks to juvenile stage before culling was a big bite in the pocketbook. It was worth it though..for the keepers and for the experience as well as the knowledge gained in the process. Sure appreciate all the links to books and old time breeders.

You know, it's true, that "it ain't cheap", but, Wow!, it's like a smorgasbord for selection! The more chicks you raise with the fewer breeds kept, the greater the chance to being able to select some eye-popping individuals. It changes the very tone of selection; one stops feeling like a Darwinian beggar and begins to feel like a Mendelian gourmet.

 

[bantams galore]

Hi, I am starting out with birds that have been line bred for at least several generations, but they certainly aren't something that a person would want to "Clone". I mean no one is going to sell those birds to a beginner. The breeder told me that they will create better females than males, so will the same plans work mating back to the old hen instead of breeding back to the cock bird?

 

[fowlman01]

http://ultimatefowl.com/wiki/index.php?title=Line_Breeding

Chuck and Craig know their stuff.

Walt