Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[bantams galore]

What would one use a program like this for? The source it came from said that the original male and female would be mother and son. To me, it seems like if it was followed to the end, then it would be breeding too close, but if just used for 3-4 generations, I was thinking it was easy to keep track of.






Also, my females are better than my males, so I can line breed that way too right? So if I had a couple of females penned separately and each year replaced their mate with their best son, and after say three years, replace the hen with her best daughter, and find her a mate that was the son of the other female?

 

[Robert Blosl]

This is a nice chart and should work well for beginner’s heck I Might even try it. I have a female line of White leghorns bantams. The most important thing regardless what you do is keep the system simple. If Walt could ever find me some White Frizzle Sarcomas out west and I had a pair or two pair this is how I would breed them. I just got to get me some bird cages to put in my house so I can raise hanks for your chart it’s a new one on me and I like it. Bob​

What would one use a program like this for? The source it came from said that the original male and female would be mother and son. To me, it seems like if it was followed to the end, then it would be breeding too close, but if just used for 3-4 generations, I was thinking it was easy to keep track of.






Also, my females are better than my males, so I can line breed that way too right? So if I had a couple of females penned separately and each year replaced their mate with their best son, and after say three years, replace the hen with her best daughter, and find her a mate that was the son of the other female?

 

[cbnovick]

If Walt could ever find me some White Frizzle Sarcomas out west and I had a pair or two pair this is how I would breed them.
Bob​

I'll tell you what, Bob....you are very WISE and very WITTY too!!!
I sure hope Walt sees this and gets a huge chuckle out of it....
Made my day

P.S. If you really have your heart set on some White Frizzle Seramas, I am sure between everyone on this thread we could find you some!!
When's your birthday????

 

[bantams galore]

Thanks Bob, I thought it was very easy because you simply replace the oldest bird each year........... One year the male and the next the female. It seems pretty straight forward. I found it on a gamefowl site, and what they described it as being useful for was "locking in the genes" without going brother to sister. And then I was reading Don Schrider's book about turkeys and he said that some people breed from trios and one year replace the male and the next replace the two female, and keep that rotation for 3-4 years and then out cross to another family. I don't know it just seemed to easy, but if you think it might be worth trying then it probably is.

 

[thedragonlady]

Three generations of inbreeding is a frightening thought for me. Like genes attract each other; as well as strengthening the desirable virtues, one would be doing the same on the weaknesses. Unfortunately, the weaknesses seem to show more strength when doubled up on. How does one work around this dilemma? With line breeding, one has a bit of space/ chance to to play around with; but, when it comes to inbreeding, it is quite a dangerous tight, narrow line.
Lual

Lual,

You have to be very strict about culling for weaknesses when doing this . It does, in the end, produce a very strong dominant line, when done correctly. About the third generation you have found most of the skeletons in the closet , and hopefully culled them . I think if you really knew what was behind some English Pekes post war , it would be a revelation.Don't forget that a great many dog breeders had to shoot their dogs, and bury them in the garden. There was no food to feed them.More Pekes survived than Mastiffs though.

 

[Robert Blosl]

I just got back home and before I left the nice place I was in I read Dr. Fletch book. You need to read this book on inbreeding and what he was saying. I was wondering how come I preach some of this stuff but I read this book a couple of times about 25 years ago as I bought a collection of books about 50 from a old time breeder. In breeding the number one trait you select he said is Vigor. It goes to the fit of the fittest principle he says and that's how I pick my breeders. Heck if If I have to males and can not figure out which one to use. I put them in the pen and let them fight. The one that heads for the corner or gives up does not get the girls. I have done this with my large fowl years ago. They got to hatch out of the shell like pop corn to you do not help a chick out if he or she can not hatch under a reasonable time and they are weaklings I don't care if they are 96 point chickens you do not breed from them. Why. You only need two good males and two good females why take a chance and breed from non vigorous birds and normally they don't lay with a flip anyway. Fast feathering early development good feather quality healthy looking chickens is what you want as breeders. If you do this inbreeding will not be a worry. Also, do not worry about this stuff. These are chickens not humans. Hope this helps. Nice fine on the chart and I like what you did Laura with that old chart and thanks for the link to the old book. Now save this book in your favorites in your computer and this stuff. He was the father of Poultry Husbandry and one heck of a judge.

 

[bantams galore]

What is Dr Fletch's book called? Could it really be as simple as keeping a few pairs of birds?? really Wow!

 

[lualshannon]

Lual,

You have to be very strict about culling for weaknesses when doing this . It does, in the end, produce a very strong dominant line, when done correctly. About the third generation you have found most of the skeletons in the closet , and hopefully culled them . I think if you really knew what was behind some English Pekes post war , it would be a revelation.Don't forget that a great many dog breeders had to shoot their dogs, and bury them in the garden. There was no food to feed them.More Pekes survived than Mastiffs though.

Thank you for pointing out that one would find out what is really behind the pedigrees, and yes, I had some experiences where wondered where in the world this baby came from..well, genetics play some interesting games and surprises pup up when one expects or need them.

 

[Robert Blosl]

http://archive.org/details/cu31924003158312

Here is the book I was talking about. Scan through the first few pages and then he will talk about inbreeding. This old boy was the top dog in the late days of the 1880s he use to judge using the old points system and was good friends and a mentor to E B Thompson the famous Barred Rock Breeder.

Mr. Weaver I got some pictures from our Partner in Wisconsin who got the ten White Rock Chicks from me. Now I got to coach him on the two male two female line breeding system He is so smart he is only a 9th grader and when you talk to him on the phone he sounds like a senior. It like me all over again as a junior. I will make sure his three or four years of junior breeding and showing will be good ones. Maybe we can swap some chicks from him to you this spring. He has one male and one female that looks like they are going to be super typey. Only need two or three to pull this off.

Back home Steve and Matt and all. Weak as can be but on the mend. Got a infected hand from a cat fish stick while fishing two weeks ago. I am on Steroids for my muscle weakness and that is what did me in. Normally I am healthy as my old dog shorter from the Rescue pond. But with this stuff in my body it got to me. Antibiotics for four weeks till healed.

Give me time to come up with some good Seroma Line Breeding Programs Walt.

Help me find some nice bird cages like they have over there in the land of Seromas. Steve thinks I need some BLUE ones my wife likes Blue Chickens. Right Steve?

 

[fowlman01]

http://archive.org/details/cu31924003158312

Here is the book I was talking about. Scan through the first few pages and then he will talk about inbreeding. This old boy was the top dog in the late days of the 1880s he use to judge using the old points system and was good friends and a mentor to E B Thompson the famous Barred Rock Breeder.

Mr. Weaver I got some pictures from our Partner in Wisconsin who got the ten White Rock Chicks from me. Now I got to coach him on the two male two female line breeding system He is so smart he is only a 9th grader and when you talk to him on the phone he sounds like a senior. It like me all over again as a junior. I will make sure his three or four years of junior breeding and showing will be good ones. Maybe we can swap some chicks from him to you this spring. He has one male and one female that looks like they are going to be super typey. Only need two or three to pull this off.

Back home Steve and Matt and all. Weak as can be but on the mend. Got a infected hand from a cat fish stick while fishing two weeks ago. I am on Steroids for my muscle weakness and that is what did me in. Normally I am healthy as my old dog shorter from the Rescue pond. But with this stuff in my body it got to me. Antibiotics for four weeks till healed.

Give me time to come up with some good Seroma Line Breeding Programs Walt.

Help me find some nice bird cages like they have over there in the land of Seromas. Steve thinks I need some BLUE ones my wife likes Blue Chickens. Right Steve?

I got the male for you that will shave light years off your program. He has the station, tail...the whole works. Someone "gifted" this specimen to me by throwing it over my 6ft fence....I know it didn't fly in. It looks like it has everything you need Bob. As soon as it cools down I will ship it off to you. With some breeding suggestions. Throw one of your RIR bantams with him and you will get the single comb and away you go..........how lucky you are that I just have him running around.




Walt