Bob Blosl's Heritage Large Fowl Thread

[thedragonlady]

The Closed Gene Pool and Foreign Blood

A closed gene pool is more than just a gene pool which hasn't been outcrossed. It is a gene pool which has been maintained within itself for so long that any unconsidered outcross is more likely to create problems than enhance the gene pool. The genes in a closed gene pool are very stable and do not take kindly to being manipulated by anything but than an extensively researched and well educated insertion of foreign blood. This foreign blood should be from a related gene pool and no more than 25% of it should be unrelated to the closed gene pool. It should be added in thru the female side. Then the get from that breeding be bred back into the closed gene pool to re-stabilize the closed gene pool with the addition of whatever plusses were brought in from the foreign blood.
This is where many novices err. They believe they need to create "biodiversity" and found their flock by crossing strains. In closed gene pools and superior veteran line bred flocks ( both sometimes the same thing) this upsets the equilibrium of the gene pool and the novice spends years trying to re establish it or plain gives up. Research is your friend. The breeder of your birds and the history of the breed are also.
Best,
Karen

Interesting Karen as I brought in English bred Orps and used them on US Orps.That was a cross that had not been done in years.The MALE has been dominant in improving on the US birds, not the female.

 

[armorfirelady]

Dear "old newbie"

I have been thinking about how I use to think of chickens are veterinarians  or even vegans. It seems like you never made that easy mistake. Of course I have learned that is not true at all. They are carnivorous creatures. They hunt out bugs and do a find job of killing beetles, spiders, snails and the like. But it also turns out they will fight the dogs and the cat for their food. I had to teach the little dog (she is 6.5 pounds) to protect her food. The 80 pound dog eats his so quickly they have no chance. The kitten gets bored after a few bites and finds the chickens only to willing to clean up her breakfast. The chickens crack me up. They are hungry and industrious and look for weakness in larger stronger animals only to happy to eat their store bought food. Don't even get me started on bones. If there are bones at stake the chickens pack up and attempt to amount an attack. In usually ends up with them getting scraps from the little dog or food the cat just wasn't feeling in the mood for.....anyway glad to read your post. Delightful to hear about your chickens feathers diet and molting

A turkey carcass or left over chicken wings don't last very long with my hens. Bones are picked clean. Nor do any bugs who happen to fly into their area. Plus there is nothing more amusing them a hen on a dead run to catch a flying bug

Leftovers is their favorite meal. I've never had healthier hens then when I started feeding them animal protein a few times a week.

 

[Fred's Hens]

The Closed Gene Pool and Foreign Blood

A closed gene pool is more than just a gene pool which hasn't been outcrossed. It is a gene pool which has been maintained within itself for so long that any unconsidered outcross is more likely to create problems than enhance the gene pool. The genes in a closed gene pool are very stable and do not take kindly to being manipulated by anything but than an extensively researched and well educated insertion of foreign blood. This foreign blood should be from a related gene pool and no more than 25% of it should be unrelated to the closed gene pool. It should be added in thru the female side. Then the get from that breeding be bred back into the closed gene pool to re-stabilize the closed gene pool with the addition of whatever plusses were brought in from the foreign blood.
This is where many novices err. They believe they need to create "biodiversity" and found their flock by crossing strains. In closed gene pools and superior veteran line bred flocks ( both sometimes the same thing) this upsets the equilibrium of the gene pool and the novice spends years trying to re establish it or plain gives up. Research is your friend. The breeder of your birds and the history of the breed are also.
Best,
Karen

Karen, is this a quote or did you pen this?

 

[cbnovick]

I did bathe him before the show and he was alone for at least a week before traveling. The pullet is with another pullet, only the two of them, in a 3x6 coop with a 6x8 run. This pullet seems to enjoy chasing the other one around but not the reverse.

I live in a really really dry climate. I used to live in the foothills of California in the Sierra Nevada range. We got way more rain there than here and I still had this trouble. If it is environmental, I'm wondering what to feed to overcome these issues?

It seems to not matter what I feed them, I've tried several things, except going for higher protein. When my birds are young, they grow at a normal pace (I suppose) and then at 3-4 months, they start to grow really fast. If I don't lower the protein or raise the calcium, I get leg problems. This year, at the suggestion of NYREDS, I've been feeding All Flock. It has a higher calcium than regular chick starter. Maybe I should try going to a grower feed once they're through the big growth spurt?

What about animal protein? What do you guys do to get some of this for your birds? I know a lot of you just feed from a bag and that is all vegetable protein with synthetic methionine and B12 and whatever else is provided by animal protein. Some of you are lucky and have a source for animal protein based feed. But those of you who don't, how do you meet this need in your birds?

dried mealworms (Kaytee brand is excellent) and meat scraps (chopped well) at least 3x weekly...high quality canned cat foot (chunky style not pate) low or no sodium tuna sometimes, if birds will eat- some do and some don't

 

[unkadan]

dried mealworms (Kaytee brand is excellent) and meat scraps (chopped well) at least 3x weekly...high quality canned cat foot (chunky style not pate) low or no sodium tuna sometimes, if birds will eat- some do and some don't

Is this where the "eye of newt" comes in?

 

[Lacy Blues]

Some of us don't have range for our birds and the only bugs available to them are the ones that come into their run. I live in the desert but I have sage brush and rabbit brush but there are many stray dogs around here and so I can't let my birds run all over my ten acres! Therefore, any animal protein (be it eye of newt or other sources) and/or greens is going to come from me.

 

[RedRidge]

Some of us don't have range for our birds and the only bugs available to them are the ones that come into their run. I live in the desert but I have sage brush and rabbit brush but there are many stray dogs around here and so I can't let my birds run all over my ten acres! Therefore, any animal protein (be it eye of newt or other sources) and/or greens is going to come from me.

This is where raising Black Soldier Flies can be so wonderful... free, easy to raise and harvest, very high in calcium and protein, and they freeze well for feeding over the winter - I have an entire freezer of them right now in preparation for cooping my birds for 90-120 days over the winter.

 

[3riverschick]

Karen, is this a quote or did you pen this?

I penned this based on the various writings of numerous veteran breeders. Do you need references?
I probably should have included some. Always a good idea when one states something which looks to be stated as fact.
Best,
Karen

 

[Fred's Hens]

I penned this based on the various writings of numerous veteran breeders. Do you need references?
I probably should have included some. Always a good idea when one states something which looks to be stated as fact.
Best,
Karen

Karen, I do not need references. But you might want to provide them in your own notebook for the time when such references are required. Not here, not now, but sometime.

I asked because it is brilliantly and succinctly stated. Thanks.

 

[Lacy Blues]

This is where raising Black Soldier Flies can be so wonderful... free, easy to raise and harvest, very high in calcium and protein, and they freeze well for feeding over the winter - I have an entire freezer of them right now in preparation for cooping my birds for 90-120 days over the winter.

I have been looking into them but I don't know if they live where I live. Is it too late in the year to start a colony? Plus, I was defending cbnovick's statement.