Bonding with my horse AND getting her to focus???

[Rusty Hills Farm]

Quote:
I'm sorry but I cannot agree. All in the world the stallion did was discover how to get his own way to end an unpleasantness that you were making him endure. It was about HIM. He didn't care about you or your feelings, only about ending something HE did not like. Deceit is a HUMAN characteristic and horses do not possess it. They are not involved in what you think or feel. They aren't even aware that you DO think and feel. They are self-aware only. When they like us it is not because of us but because of how we relate to THEM. They are not like human children. They cannot reason their way through life. Cutting horses cut because they like the game much the way dogs chase a rabbit--it's instinct and it's FUN. If they don't enjoy it, it quickly shows in lost cows and we soon find another horse to cut with or another job for that horse that he is more adept at.

There are a lot of truly fine and noble horses out there but I do not believe they are that way because of us or to please us. They are not dogs that way. They are noble and fine for themselves because of a need inside them. It is their own personal need to be fine and noble and NOT because we in any way made them that way.

JMO, of course!

Rusty

Horses are certainly capable of showing affection and of having certain feelings towards herd members and even towards other species. If they were self-aware only, there would be no bonding, no herd structure, stallions would have no need or desire to protect their mares, and mares would reject their foals. You could try to argue that all of this is self-serving but if that is the case, then horses might as well be flat worms. The stallion who stuck his nose in the water bucket had a number of options to end the "unpleasantness" that I was "making" him endure. One of them would have been to injure or kill me. That would have resolved the problem with a lot less effort. If you say it is was out of respect, then there is some acknowledgment that I will react and that I am capable of thinking. Otherwise he would have not chosen the bucket as an option. A horse can respect an electric fence too but only has ONE option to avoid being shocked. That is a conditioned response, the nose in the water bucket was not. Horses, like dogs, are individuals. Some want to please, some do not.

I think the "self-aware" is probably too restrictive. I think I am meaning "species-aware". But I do not believe horses are aware of people's feelings and motives. Some truly fine ones do seem to take a liking to us but they never look at things from our prospective, only theirs. And he didn't attack or kill you out of awareness of his meal ticket, I'm thinking. If you've been together for awhile, he may have also taken a shine to you--but as an extension of himself and his wants. Kinda liking that pet person of his own. But we always remain a separate species to them, just like cows are and goats and chickens. We are mostly something in their universe for them to be aware of and even familiar with. But they do not feel the human emotions we so often endow them with.

JMO


Rusty

 

[Sumatra503]

I feel that it is all a matter of perspective. Horses are certainly capable of some form of emotions, they just have a different way of expressing them. They show affection by nuzzling eachother or by chewing eachother's hair, which humans find disrespectful or threatening. When frightened they run or seek shelter and often look to the leader of the herd, which is sometimes their handler. They know when something terrible has happened, such as the death of a friend, and they are sad and morn, just in ways we find strange, often they sulk or hide away. They offer eachother comfort when they are lonely.

They are capable of deception and of love and affection. We are just too set in our ways to recognize the things they do as emmotion.

It is part of human arrogance to assume we are the only animals, and yes we are animals by classification, capable of emmotion or depth which aids in our assuption that we are the dominant species on the planet.

Perhaps animals consider us in the same way. They are capable of complicated thought.

 

[froggiesheins]

WELL SAID RUSTY!

Quote:
Horses are certainly capable of showing affection and of having certain feelings towards herd members and even towards other species. If they were self-aware only, there would be no bonding, no herd structure, stallions would have no need or desire to protect their mares, and mares would reject their foals. You could try to argue that all of this is self-serving but if that is the case, then horses might as well be flat worms. The stallion who stuck his nose in the water bucket had a number of options to end the "unpleasantness" that I was "making" him endure. One of them would have been to injure or kill me. That would have resolved the problem with a lot less effort. If you say it is was out of respect, then there is some acknowledgment that I will react and that I am capable of thinking. Otherwise he would have not chosen the bucket as an option. A horse can respect an electric fence too but only has ONE option to avoid being shocked. That is a conditioned response, the nose in the water bucket was not. Horses, like dogs, are individuals. Some want to please, some do not.

I think the "self-aware" is probably too restrictive. I think I am meaning "species-aware". But I do not believe horses are aware of people's feelings and motives. Some truly fine ones do seem to take a liking to us but they never look at things from our prospective, only theirs. And he didn't attack or kill you out of awareness of his meal ticket, I'm thinking. If you've been together for awhile, he may have also taken a shine to you--but as an extension of himself and his wants. Kinda liking that pet person of his own. But we always remain a separate species to them, just like cows are and goats and chickens. We are mostly something in their universe for them to be aware of and even familiar with. But they do not feel the human emotions we so often endow them with.

JMO


Rusty

 

[froggiesheins]

WELL SAID SUMATRA!

Quote:

 

[froggiesheins]

WILLOW, In the 21st century we are now capable of emailing,text messaging, ALL while at work, a stop light, feeding the baby, it is called multi-tasking.
I find it interesting that you feel that the good people on BYC are "out to get you". All we are doing is expressing our own OPINIONS on the matter. Horse people do tend to be the type to be--"My way is the best way" so you have to chill out alittle and let the needling, that you perceve in these posts, slide off of you. When some one comments on a post FROM ANOTHER BYC member and says: WELL SAID! it is not an attack or "bashing" on you, they are just agreeing with THAT poster!
Lastly, just because you see someone doing it, and no one got hurt THAT time, doesn't mean it is OK to do all of the time. This is where common sense comes into play. And learning about HOW a horse percieves his world around him, and you learning how to "talk horse language".

Willow's Meadow :

Quote:
Thank You. I would also like to add to this that it is absolutly AMAZING to me that people like welsummers and other people who have posted on this topic have posted paragraphs and paragraphs and have read the WHOLE topic and ALLLL the posts of me and other people. And what absolutly amazes me is that they have the TIME to do all of it!!! Don't they have a job? Don't they have a family? Don't they have a life? All I did was ask a simple question about some exercises/activities I could do with MY horse to get her mind running and her focus on me. I wanted people like welsummers to just list a few things I could do with her. MY horse is 5 years old so she is young and green. She is also turned out 24/7....she lives outside in a pasture with 2 other horses. Please don't anyone say that is abuse because their are thousands of people that just keep their horses outside with a run-in. So she is usually very tired when I ride her. She'll be half asleep in the cross ties sometimes. lol So I think that is why she is not really focused...because she is tired. I think she is a little tired just because she is outside all day so she is running around and rolling and walking and playing with the other horses instead of just stand in a small stall all the time. Anyway they had to start an argument and a debate on it they couldn't just answer my question. But thank you anyway Sumatra for standing up for me.....some of the things these people have said are very rude, immature and mean. They couldn't just answer my question they had to bully me, yell at me and say mean things about me.​

 

[eggchel]

Topic closed at the request of the O.P.






Chel