Bonding with my horse AND getting her to focus???

[Willow's Meadow]

Quote:
I've been riding the same saddle and wearing the same brand of jeans for a lot of years now. Those jeans always wear out in exactly the same spot. It's right where the suede seat meets the smooth leather of the flap and I have worn out pair after pair of jeans in that exact spot BECAUSE of the number of hours I have spent sitting that saddle over the years. Which is just a backhanded way to say that horses you work with every single day, day after day, with consistent aids and a clear-cut notion of what you are trying to accomplish--that is how to "get her attention/focus" on you. Give her interesting work that piques her attention and be ready to praise her when she does it right and growl when she doesn't. From the get-go I use a course of barrels, cavaletti poles laid right on the ground, upright poles, boxes, etc ridden in a totally random pattern of zig-zagging back and forth and as mixed up as I can manage. Usually by their second day on the course they are eager to go and totally enjoying the game because it is NEVER boring yet teaches them the basics. They get to have fun! They quickly learn to love it--and me with it. They always seem to forget all about fighting me or bucking or generally being a pain in the a$$. Then I ease some drills in between the games. Later on, when we graduate to trails, they are eager to go have fun. When we finally add some cows to the mix, most of them absolutely blossom!

And when we're both tired and head back for the barn, they seem to genuinely enjoy the bath/brush/comb/whatever and are content to head for their stalls for that final flake of hay and a good, long nap. I sincerely believe my horses enjoy their lives, enjoy their work, and enjoy the time we spend together. I know I sure do. All of this takes months and months of every day work, of course, but it does make for a very nice, well-rounded animal. BTW I always try not to spend more than 30 minutes in the arena at a time. I really do NOT believe in those 2-3-4 hour "training sessions" some people seem to do. It's my personal opinion that after about 30 minutes in the arena, your horse stops enjoying himself and it becomes a chore. And we all know how kids feel about chores!

Don't know if any of this is helpful at all, but it's what I've been doing for about 45-50 years now, and it has worked for me.

HTH


Two thumbs up!!!!!

Rusty

 

[Willow's Meadow]

Quote:
And YOU just restated EVERYTHING that everyone has BEEN SAYING!!!!!!! LOL

 

[Willow's Meadow]

Quote:
Can I bring this up specifically? It worries me. It sounds to me like you are letting her loose in an arena that has chairs and tables and coffee and stuff like that accessible to the horse; and it sounds to me like you are sitting down in a chair with the horse totally-loose around you.

I'm not saying that's so dangerous with a experienced well-trained horse who fully knows the rules and respects your boundaries... but doing it with a "very very green" horse who you say has attention problems and tends to do unwise and uncontrolled things ("knocking over other chairs"), it is NOT A GOOD PLAN.

Hanging out with the horse is a good thing, mind you. But it needs to be in a *safe environment*, and you need to be in a position where you can get outta the way if necessary. The same horse that slowly meanders along pushing over an unoccupied chair can perfectly well be standing there next to where you're sitting and then, without any mean intentions, have you flat on the ground after doing the same to *your* chair. And a number of similar possibilities.

As to your question:

I agree with the previous posts, it sounds to me like you are to some degree in over your head with this horse at the moment, and it may very well be something you can deal with WITH ON-SITE PROFESSIONAL HELP but is not a "fix it over the internet" project. You and the horse need to learn a common language with which to communicate, and then actually use it on a regular ongoing basis. It's not a theory thing, it is a DOING thing, and only someone THERE with you can teach you tact and timing and interpretation and to use your body and aids correctly and so forth, and clarify to you what the horse is actually doing/thinking and give some kind of reality-check on your expectations.

I know it is popular in these situations to suggest people watch NH videos or attend NH clinics but I would really kinda steer you AWAY from doing things like that in this case... reason being, that is pretty reliably harmless for people who had a good communication basis with their horses to begin with, but for a very green horse and a rider who is not sure where to start, it not-infrequently goes very very wrong because the IMPORTANT things just cannot be learned by watching or reading.

Get a good experienced horseman to help you. Really really. This is not necessarily a *difficult* thing to fix, but it requires someone being there giving you real-time advice and feedback and demonstration with your horse.

Good luck, have fun, don't sit in chairs around less-than-impeccably-behaved horses,

Pat

She's not going to knock ME over!!!!!! lol She's like a big puppy dog!!!!! She's a good horse.....jeez relax. LOL

 

[babyblue]

horses in a herd bond threw grooming and horses higher in the herd boss the ones lower. horses don't have a cute Disney mind set of how much they love their people. their pea size brains just don't work like that. hours of grooming, training and handleing give you a horse that trusts and respects you as the leader of their herd. Ive had my old horse since I turned 14 years old. I am the boss, food comes from me, shelter comes from me, exercise comes from me, turn out comes from me. we got a yearling for me to train and keep him company. he hated her guts. I sold her as a 6 yo and he has never been happier to be taken care of all by himself. trust and respect are the greatest bond your horse can ever have in you.

 

[welsummerchicks]

You asked for help and people here have tried very hard to tell you - people who have been working with horses for forty, fifty years, have tried, but it appears you didn't come to ask for help, but to 'get a majority vote'.

Put plain, what you're doing is stuff that can very easily get you hurt. Too, the attitude can get you hurt 'she won't hurt me, she's a big puppy dog' because that attitude will lead you to do things you shouldn't oughta be doing. And eventually, it will catch up with you.

This is a HORSE - it does not think like a dog OR a human being. It thinks like a horse. It acts, it reacts, like a horse. Not like anything else in this world, like a horse. A horse thinks, feels, has emotions, but it is how a horse thinks, what a horse feels, the emotions a horse has. Horses learn from being taught as a horse.

I've had quite a few of the bones in my body broke at one time or another by a horse, including my skull. Like many people when they first start with horses, I thought I knew a whole lot more than I did. When I got a little experience, I realized how little I knew. I learned that the hard way. I hope nobody else has to.

It's about plain old simple every day work, real basic nuts and bolts stuff, sweating, getting dirty, it is at times hard work. An inexperienced person is guided by someone more experienced.

That means letting go of a few cherished misconceptions, and accepting help.

Know what? Your 'puppy dog' IS going to hurt you - eventually, or she's going to hurt herself, or someone else. Because what you're doing is dangerous, and anyone been around horses will tell you a horse is not a puppy dog, and you can't pretend they are without getting hurt.

 

[serendipityfarm]

Willow's Meadow :

Quote:
Can I bring this up specifically? It worries me. It sounds to me like you are letting her loose in an arena that has chairs and tables and coffee and stuff like that accessible to the horse; and it sounds to me like you are sitting down in a chair with the horse totally-loose around you.

I'm not saying that's so dangerous with a experienced well-trained horse who fully knows the rules and respects your boundaries... but doing it with a "very very green" horse who you say has attention problems and tends to do unwise and uncontrolled things ("knocking over other chairs"), it is NOT A GOOD PLAN.

Hanging out with the horse is a good thing, mind you. But it needs to be in a *safe environment*, and you need to be in a position where you can get outta the way if necessary. The same horse that slowly meanders along pushing over an unoccupied chair can perfectly well be standing there next to where you're sitting and then, without any mean intentions, have you flat on the ground after doing the same to *your* chair. And a number of similar possibilities.

As to your question:

I agree with the previous posts, it sounds to me like you are to some degree in over your head with this horse at the moment, and it may very well be something you can deal with WITH ON-SITE PROFESSIONAL HELP but is not a "fix it over the internet" project. You and the horse need to learn a common language with which to communicate, and then actually use it on a regular ongoing basis. It's not a theory thing, it is a DOING thing, and only someone THERE with you can teach you tact and timing and interpretation and to use your body and aids correctly and so forth, and clarify to you what the horse is actually doing/thinking and give some kind of reality-check on your expectations.

I know it is popular in these situations to suggest people watch NH videos or attend NH clinics but I would really kinda steer you AWAY from doing things like that in this case... reason being, that is pretty reliably harmless for people who had a good communication basis with their horses to begin with, but for a very green horse and a rider who is not sure where to start, it not-infrequently goes very very wrong because the IMPORTANT things just cannot be learned by watching or reading.

Get a good experienced horseman to help you. Really really. This is not necessarily a *difficult* thing to fix, but it requires someone being there giving you real-time advice and feedback and demonstration with your horse.

Good luck, have fun, don't sit in chairs around less-than-impeccably-behaved horses,

Pat

She's not going to knock ME over!!!!!! lol She's like a big puppy dog!!!!! She's a good horse.....jeez relax. LOL​

One lesson all horse people learn... NEVER say NEVER!!!
Safety first is a great motto as far as green horses are concerned. AND Though I am not a huge Parelli fan, their "Seven Games" helped a LOT when I was bonding with my horse as a youngster. He came from a field and had had some, but minimal, regular handling. He is now MY horse 100%. We get each other and I think we make a pretty great team (nearly 4 years later). We still have a long way to go in our training, but patience and consistency will ALWAYS work.

I too agree wholeheartedly that you should find a good trainer to work with. If you want to bond with your horse, find one that will help YOU train your horse, not do the training for you. The bond will come over time if you are fair and kind. (but do not confuse kindnes with spoiling or you'll be in trouble)

Good Luck!

 

[michickenwrangler]

Quote:
Humans are predators and we tend to forget that horses have a completely different mindset than we do. Who's man's best friend? It's a DOG, another predator. Humans have a much easier time binding with dogs because their minds work more like ours than a horse's. A pack dynamic and mentality is also different than a HERD mentality. When a predator goes after a herd, the prey's instinct is to get away from the predator as quick as possible. SOMEONE's going to get caught and the horse wants to be darn sure that he's not going to be the one to get eaten, so he had better run faster! A horse can accelerate faster than a racecar. 0-35mph instantly!

While a young horse may act puppy-like, they are not. They will grow up to become food for grown-up puppies. Very few horses ever completely lose the prey drive, however we can condition them to not be so reactive.

One of the horse associations around here does trail obstacle clinics--different from arena trail classes though. They work on getting horses to step over large logs, cross water, sidepass over poles, go past turkeys and lots of other stuff (yes I know it sounds like arena trail but from what I've heard, it's more with trail riding as a goal--the trainer at the barn takes her students to these things). Maybe you could take the horse to something like that as opposed to a Parelli clinic.

 

[Rusty Hills Farm]

She's not going to knock ME over!!!!!! lol She's like a big puppy dog!!!!! She's a good horse.....jeez relax. LOL

Hon, I know you want to believe this, but it just ain't so!

For example: I have a 1987 AQHA mare that I delivered. Nobody has put any time into her but me. There has never been a time in her life when she wasn't in my barn. She is as gentle as a kitten, as well-trained as a dog, and understands as many words as my parrot who speaks in full sentences. She would not hurt a fly. Nonetheless, she knocked me out cold one day quite by accident when she miss-stepped and almost fell while going into her stall. I got knocked UNDER her and she stepped on me probably while trying NOT to step on me. I blame myself. I got too casual because she IS such a sweetheart. If that can happen with such an easy, well-trained animal, can you imagine just how much damage an undisciplined youngster can do to you without actually meaning to in a moment of surprise? Like when a bird she didn't see suddenly takes flight or a plastic bag she didn't see blows up against a hind foot? Babies PANIC and when they do, it ain't pretty! Your 120 lbs does not stand a chance against her 900 lbs! In those situations you will always lose. Broken bones hurt just as much when she didn't mean it as they do when she did it deliberately.

So please listen to what these good folks are trying to tell you. They just want to save you a lot of pain and a big loss of the confidence and trust that you have in this mare.

(and thanks for the kind words about my website!)

Rusty​

 

[Redcatcher]

The concept of training based on dietary preference is rubbish. Training is based on common sense and a basic knowledge of animal behavior and has nothing to do with who eats what and how. The dogs' instinct to chase prey is as strong as a horse's instinct to flee. Both can be very problematic (and dangerous) in their respective training. The horse does not perceive us as a predator and does not care what we ate for dinner. All they care about is how they STAND with us.

I found that the horses that are curious about their surroundings seem to have a great sense of self awareness, are quite intelligent and very easily bored. That can be channeled into something constructive. You just need to give them a job and a purpose. I would rather have a horse that is curious than one that just stands there with a dull expression.

 

[michickenwrangler]

Quote:
A horse's instinct to flee DOES indeed come from the time when long ago they ran wild and were the prey of wolves and cave lions and tigers. A horse trainer's methods are different than a dog trainer's in some regards. I will admit that immediate behavior correction and socialization are used by both.

Humans who are not experienced with horses tend to forget that because horses ARE prey animals, their first instinct is to run away when because they don't wish to get eaten. The deer in the forest, the squirrel in your yard (exception for Boyd's squirrels

), the antelope in Africa are the same.

Domestic horses can be trained to accept humans as herd leaders but they still retain the instinct to run when scared.

And I can guarantee that most horses would treat a human as a predator if the human crouched, hidden and then ambushed the horse by clawing at its hindquarters and trying to wrestle it to the ground. Not that I recommend trying this!