Bonding with my horse AND getting her to focus???

[patandchickens]

Willow's Meadow :

She's not going to knock ME over!!!!!! lol She's like a big puppy dog!!!!! She's a good horse.....jeez relax. LOL

Hoo boy. I was not worried about you before. Now I kinda am. That is exactly PRECISELY the attitude that puts people in the hospital.

It has *nothing* to do with being a good horse. "Big puppydog" just makes her MORE likely to get you hurt, sitting in a chair with her wandering loose around you. They don't do it out of malice, generally -- they just, you know, don't notice or don't care about little details.

I am telling you what I have *seen*, over the years, lots of times in lots of ways. People get hurt iwth that attitude.

Pat​

 

[Bunnylady]

Many times, I have been stepped on or knocked around by horses without a mean bone in their bodies. My most recent collision of that kind was with an as-near-as-you-can-get-to-bombproof pony that was startled by a sudden flash of sunlight on a plastic bag. She jumped sideways and guess what? That just happened to be where I was! She knew I was there; I was leading her, for Heaven's sake! She wasn't panicked, it was just a couple of steps, but "whoops! Sorry about that, Chief." No harm done, but it never ceases to amaze me how fast these big animals can move when they react without thinking. We are never as much in control of them as we'd like to think we are, so we must be forever mindful of the danger that any horse, however gentle, represents. Stay safe, you want to be able to enjoy that mare of yours for many years to come!

 

[Redcatcher]

Quote:
A horse's instinct to flee DOES indeed come from the time when long ago they ran wild and were the prey of wolves and cave lions and tigers. A horse trainer's methods are different than a dog trainer's in some regards. I will admit that immediate behavior correction and socialization are used by both.

Humans who are not experienced with horses tend to forget that because horses ARE prey animals, their first instinct is to run away when because they don't wish to get eaten. The deer in the forest, the squirrel in your yard (exception for Boyd's squirrels

), the antelope in Africa are the same.

Domestic horses can be trained to accept humans as herd leaders but they still retain the instinct to run when scared.

And I can guarantee that most horses would treat a human as a predator if the human crouched, hidden and then ambushed the horse by clawing at its hindquarters and trying to wrestle it to the ground. Not that I recommend trying this!

All predators are in fact prey animals themselves. And they have the same survival instincts as prey animals and they will ALL run when scared. They even exhibit prey animal behavior while they are hunting since it is a kill or be killed world out there. This instinct has been mostly bred out of domestic dogs though cats (which are obligate carnivores) will exhibit very strong prey animal behavior. Virtually, all wild predator's instinct is to run from other predators that are faster, larger, smarter ect.. than they are. I can guarantee you that a wolf and most domestic dogs would also run from a human if the human crouched, hidden and then ambushed it. Only if it cannot run away, will it attack and bite. The only difference is that when a 1000 lb animals spooks, the consequences are far more dramatic. Yet natural horsemanship is base around "prey vs. predator" mentality when it is simply any animal's basic instinct for survival regardless of how they obtain their meals. Horses do not care what side of your head your eyes are located and they do not care if you just ate a side of beef for lunch. They simply want to be treated fairly and consistently.

 

[welsummerchicks]

"just want to be treated fairly"

ehhhhhh.........I don't think it's quite that simple, and I still think many inexperienced horse people 'don't get it' when it comes to horse behavior.

'A prey animal'....ehhhh....most of the problems people have with horses, aren't about the 'run away! run away! instinct'. They're about being an ineffective leader, and doing stuff - well - wrong. So what the person is trying to get the horse to do, the way he's asking, the horse can't figure out what the person wants him to do - or there is no incentive, or prompt, or reward, to what the person wants - in other words, no 'learning structure'. People have a lot of problems because they don't have an understanding of the process of training, but also because they don't know how that applies to a horse.

As far as the startle, run away, stuff -

Pushing back against pressure - an unbroke horse does not give to leg or rein pressure, or any pressure. It's that way in the running herd to hold the other animal up, so he doesn't fall.

Crowding into a person when startled - the instinct is to push into the herd, for safety. Who ever the herd is. If you're there and you're bigger than a breadbox, it's you.

Taking off when startled - happens a lot. Another instinct.

Running over top of a person when startled - jumping sideways, forward, backward - happens a lot. Again, the instinct is to press into the herd, but that is slightly inconvenient, and results in broken bones.

Lest I lapse into one of those scenes like the one in Jaws where Richard Dreyfuss and Robert Shaw show each other their scars, I'll just say training is about teaching another behavior instead of some instincts the animals have, built in patterns of behavior, and replacing them with something else.

The animal gets guided into different behavior, and gets rewarded for doing it, corrected when he doesn't. Most of what people expect a horse to do, is counter to his instincts. But that doesn't really matter - most of what everyone does of any species is counter to their instincts. Takes work every day, practice and not just practice, but the right kind of practice. Learned from someone who has done it well, for a long, long time - with that species of animal. Not some other species. With that species. Because every species trains somewhat differently.

Back to - get someone there, frequently, to teach you how to handle your horse.

 

[Redcatcher]

Quote:
To some people it is very simple and straightforward. To others...Well they just have to read the book

I consider myself exceedingly lucky. I worked at a breeding farm in my teens and rode my pony bareback from the age of 5 to the time I was drafted in the Army. I never once fell off of her but there were times when the only thing connecting me to her were a few hairs. I only considered myself to be an average rider. LOTS of close calls but the worse injuries I ever received from being around horses were bruised toes after being stepped on by foals and yearlings, to a black and blue backside when I was kicked by my cousin's pony.

 

[welsummerchicks]

(Richard Dreyfuss rolls up his pantleg and...)

I think when a person grows up around horses, it's more second nature to them.

 

[Willow's Meadow]

Quote:
I don't understand how hanging out with my horse is DANGEROUS. I know people who have been is the horse business for over 40 years that will say they are like puppy dogs....not all horses but some. And trust me she WILL NOT spook at a plastic bag, or a jacket or something flapping around. I've been on horses that will spook if a barn door is shut and it is loud or will see a plastic bag and take of running....and yes I've fallen off a lot too! I was on a pony that I was galloping and he tripped in a field and I fell off and landed on my stomach and he fell right on top of me and wouldn't get off. He kicked me in my arms and legs and I got a concusion and couldn't walk straight!!!!! I've had my wrists and ankles twisted and sprained and been kicked more times then I can remember. I've also been severely bit. I've been riding since I was 10 so it is like second nature.

Now my horse is not one of the horses that will freak out if a jacket falls of a jump or a door is shut. She has come up to me when I am sitting their and she has knocked over another chair and she will put her head down and rest it right on/by my chest.....she has never tried to knock me over or hurt me in anyway. So you all can stop treating me like I'm stupid and don't know what I'm doing!!!! Cause I can garrentee that most of you have never jumped 4'0, worked at a barn every week, taken champion at many high level rated shows, done dressage, barrel raced, trail ridden, schooled and trained green horses, worked with babies or ridden off the track thourobreds.......all of which I have done!!!!!!!

 

[froggiesheins]

Rusty, That is one heck of a story, BYC people reading this thread >>> read this post again and then read it over again and then once more to FULLY digest what this person has said...it is the gospel truth.

Quote:
Hon, I know you want to believe this, but it just ain't so!

For example: I have a 1987 AQHA mare that I delivered. Nobody has put any time into her but me. There has never been a time in her life when she wasn't in my barn. She is as gentle as a kitten, as well-trained as a dog, and understands as many words as my parrot who speaks in full sentences. She would not hurt a fly. Nonetheless, she knocked me out cold one day quite by accident when she miss-stepped and almost fell while going into her stall. I got knocked UNDER her and she stepped on me probably while trying NOT to step on me. I blame myself. I got too casual because she IS such a sweetheart. If that can happen with such an easy, well-trained animal, can you imagine just how much damage an undisciplined youngster can do to you without actually meaning to in a moment of surprise? Like when a bird she didn't see suddenly takes flight or a plastic bag she didn't see blows up against a hind foot? Babies PANIC and when they do, it ain't pretty! Your 120 lbs does not stand a chance against her 900 lbs! In those situations you will always lose. Broken bones hurt just as much when she didn't mean it as they do when she did it deliberately.

So please listen to what these good folks are trying to tell you. They just want to save you a lot of pain and a big loss of the confidence and trust that you have in this mare.

(and thanks for the kind words about my website!)

Rusty

 

[froggiesheins]

I am throwing my 2cents in, first of all pretty much everyone on this thread has summed it up, GET HELP!! You cannot "learn together", that would be like the blind leading the blind. They are NOT doggies, and they can kill you!
IF you have NO idea how to ask a horse to; Whoa, walk forward, trot/jog/ canter/lope/ turn >> GET AN INSTRUCTOR!

 

[Willow's Meadow]

Quote:
OKAY WHO EVER SAID I DONT KNOW WHO TO ASK MY HORSE TO WALK, TROT, CANTER, TURN?????????? I NEVER SAID THAT!!!!!!!!!!! I've shown in flat classes and hunter.....how would I do that if I didn't know how to ask for gaits?????????????? omg