Bought 2 goats from auction and their butts are crusty.

[cassie]

Is Johnes common?

It isn't rare but it isn't that common either. You may go your whole life without ever seeing a case.

 

[cassie]

I find that people are the most worried about CAE and CL and don't even test for Johnes. To me CAE and CL are far less of a problem than Johnes. CAE has been weird for us as some of the goats in the past that have tested positive never showed any symptoms of having it, and ones that shouldn't have even had it ended up dying because they had bad symptoms. The one goat we have left with CAE is out in the pasture with the adult and old ladies. As far as we have understood it's much harder for adults to pick it up than kids? We've been testing all these years and none of the others that are with her have come back positive. She is 8 this year I think, and some of the others will be 10 and 11. Her mother also tested positive for it and will be either 11 or 12 this year and was still being milked by the family that bought her It's so frustrating when there's so much conflicting info out there! One theory is they can test positive simply by having antibodies against it in their system? She's my sisters last goat so there is no getting rid of her either.

I'm glad I could help bring some awareness of some of these for some of you guys. The Johnes was the most devastating to us, and we had to send some very special, expensive, sentimental animals to the sales barn as slaughter only.

We hadn't heard of any of these when we started in goats, and a lot of heartbreak, time, and money could have been saved if we did. It all started out with CL, and an accidental test for CAE instead of CL. We were like, huh, CAE, what's that. With goats you'll see it all if you have them long enough.

I hope your girls are feeling better, and I'm so glad it's nothing more!

Test results are funny and none of them are 100%. That includes people too. My mother always tested positive for TB even though she didn't have it. She had been exposed though. As for CAE, I once had a goat that never in her life showed any symptoms of CAE but she did pass it on to her kids. This was before we even knew what CAE even was. Some goats, like this doe, may be infected but for some reason never develop clinical signs.

Bear in mind that the tests are not just positive or negative. There are negatives, positives, strong positives, and weak positives. Occasionally there are even false positives and false negatives. I had one big nine-year-old Togg doe being tested for Johnes that would alternate between weak positive and negative from one test to the next. I came to the conclusion that she was in fact negative because if she indeed had Johnes she should be showing symptoms by then and she never did. This is why it is important to retest a few times, maybe in six months to a year after the first test.

I can really sympathize with your heartbreak over Johnes. This is one case where I can say I know exactly how you felt. By the way, no matter how long you have had goats and how many you have owned, you will NEVER see it all. Ask me how I know this. Glad your herd is OK now.

 

[hmarg06]

I definitely should have re-phrased it to there's always something new haha. Every time we think that we must have had just about everything, something new pops up. People have joked that goats just like to find new ways to kill themselves/die.

We always use the ELISA test, and get the cutoffs for sure. We tested yearly, and sometimes spring and fall for a few years, then moved to only before kidding every year so we could sell something if it came up positive before we had birth fluids, and milk spreading things. Now we have skipped a year, and are going to draw blood this weekend on does we are selling bred just to make sure nothing has changed since their last test. It's funny when some goats do go from high to low in different years.

My first Nigerian buck was the hardest on me, but we did the longer poop incubation test for Johnes that's 100% definitive before we sent him to the sales barn. We knew there could be false positives, and wanted to make sure before we sent him. He was the only one we went that far on. It was so heartbreaking seeing him hop off the truck, and be pushed down the isle at the sales barn. I should have just told my parents I'd pay for him to be put down. The people weren't very nice to him right off the bat, but we sent 3 or 4 that day, and at least 2 of them were very sentimental ones. Ugh, it's never easy. He still looked really good since we caught it right away since we were testing, and I think we got quite a bit for him so I always wonder if someone bought him, even without his papers, to re-sell or keep. The sales barns aren't supposed to do that, but I sometimes wonder.

That's what were are really wondering for some of them that test positive. We know there's always the possibility that they never become symptomatic, but maybe they are testing positive simply because they were exposed and have antibodies for it? So interesting! Hopefully after her that will be the end of it with the CAE.

Hoping your herd is all good now as well, sounds like you've seen all this happen too. It's just nice being able to share with others, and maybe help them avoid the same terrible situations.

Sorry for the rambling, so many thoughts on this stuff.

 

[Duckfarmer1]

Test results are funny and none of them are 100%. That includes people too. My mother always tested positive for TB even though she didn't have it. She had been exposed though. As for CAE, I once had a goat that never in her life showed any symptoms of CAE but she did pass it on to her kids. This was before we even knew what CAE even was. Some goats, like this doe, may be infected but for some reason never develop clinical signs.

Bear in mind that the tests are not just positive or negative. There are negatives, positives, strong positives, and weak positives. Occasionally there are even false positives and false negatives. I had one big nine-year-old Togg doe being tested for Johnes that would alternate between weak positive and negative from one test to the next. I came to the conclusion that she was in fact negative because if she indeed had Johnes she should be showing symptoms by then and she never did. This is why it is important to retest a few times, maybe in six months to a year after the first test.

I can really sympathize with your heartbreak over Johnes. This is one case where I can say I know exactly how you felt. By the way, no matter how long you have had goats and how many you have owned, you will NEVER see it all. Ask me how I know this. Glad your herd is OK now.

Did you test yearly? We want to take our doesout to Bree next year...my buck was too hard to handle...so, before doing so..these tests are something I need done and they need done, I mean the farm we go to..I’m guessing now?

 

[cassie]

If your animals have come up negative for more than one test, I don't think I would bother testing them again unless the owner of the buck requires it. My own situation was a little different than most herd owner's. My herd was enrolled in two clinical studies, one for CAE and one for Johnes. The testing schedule was not up to me. I just had to provide the animals. For CAE vet students from the university came out about once a year and drew blood. The Johnes study had to do with comparing the fecal test with the ELISA. It seems to me they came out every few months to take blood and stool samples