Bought "ayam cemani" eggs... but I don't think that's what I got....

[TeamChaos]

My husband spent way too much money and surprised me with some ayam cemani hatching eggs he bought off eBay. 9 out of 12 hatched today and I don't think they are cemani at all. Can anyone help me out?

Thank you so much for any insight you can provide!

 

[Lady of McCamley]

I agree they are definitely not Cemani as they would be all black, beak, comb, skin, eyes, tongue.

I'm not sure what you have though...I suspicion someone was very misleading.

Amazing hatch rate for shipped eggs...75% is really good.

LofMc

 

[TeamChaos]

Thanks for the reply. I messaged the seller, let's see if he or she wants to take a guess as to what I got instead!

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Curious...what size and color were the eggs? The eggs should have been large and cream per Greenfire Farm http://greenfirefarms.com/chicken/ayam-cemani/

Medium to large cream egg could get you a multitude of breeds....and your assortment could be a number of things...what color are the legs? Beaks appear darkish but not the black of the Cemani, and you would never get a chipmunk from a purebred Cemani...from what I read at least...the chicks would be all black like the parents.

One seriously looks like an Australorp (black penguin in middle)...but again they could be all manner of possibilities....but not Cemani.

Post what the breeder says (without divulging any personal info about the seller)....I'm curious if this was a horrible mistake or blatant scam.

LofMc

 

[TeamChaos]

Turns out it was a scam... the eBay seller acknowledges that they do NOT have a pure ayam cemani on another auction site. The seller tried to tell me that the chipmunks are recessive "wild type" but in truth I suspect they are partridge leghorn crosses. Ebay customer service understood my frustration with the situation but they will not refund the money because live animals can't be returned. *shrug* live and learn.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Turns out it was a scam... the eBay seller acknowledges that they do NOT have a pure ayam cemani on another auction site. The seller tried to tell me that the chipmunks are recessive "wild type" but in truth I suspect they are partridge leghorn crosses. Ebay customer service understood my frustration with the situation but they will not refund the money because live animals can't be returned. *shrug* live and learn.

I am so sorry you got scammed, and I would still try with eBay...ask for a manager as the person who was helping you did not understand the difference between "live animal" guarantee and "fraud protection" guarantee...not being able to return the item has nothing to do with receiving a fradulent item. You are almost never required to return fraudulent items in most business transactions....nor received wrong item transactions.

Ebay on another Cemani hatching egg listing (no idea of seller, assuming different one) clearly states that you are protected by the eBay purchase protection if you receive something other than what you ordered. You can see eBay's buyer protection clauses here:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/money-back-guarantee.html#other-terms

You can see that Cemani listing here: (again please no one assume this is the wrongful seller...I am just pulling this as an example of how eBay clearly shows the fraud protection is still in place):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-RARE-AYAM...256?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35e89bf3a8

Another avenue, if your husband happened to use a credit card for the purchase (which I strongly recommend doing for the buyer protection clauses with all long distance purchases), you should file a dispute with your credit card company citing the reason of fraud. They will usually refund your money and then go after the seller.

If purchased through PayPal, talk with their buyer protection, again live animal guarantee (or lack thereof) is different than fraud guarantee. See Paypal's buyer protection clause here:
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/security/safe-online-shopping

Ideally, your husband kept a copy of the advertisement and invoice which states what he purchased. You will need that to back up your claim. If the seller still has the ad on eBay, print off a copy asap. I would also print off the comment and website address where the seller admits they do not have a pure blood Cemani on another site, asap before they take that down. Point that out to your credit card company or to PayPal as fraud evidence. Show your picture of the chicks as further evidence. If needed, copy and paste Greenfire Farm's photos of Cemani chickens. The Feathersite also has good photos.

As you can tell, I would fight this..that fine print of no "live animal" protection is not a license for fraud for sellers and should never be used for a loophole to scam people, and I personally would make my voice heard to eBay and make use of all avenues for rescinding this charge. (While not to be construed as legal advice, this is what I personally would do from my experience as an ex-paralegal).

I'm not strong on the genetics of the Cemani, but I'm not buying the "wild" type...I did read that occasionally a Cemani breeding could produce a normal pigmented chick, but none of the chicks were Cemani colored. And the Cemani thread indicates you can get grey, but all my grey colored chicks are just that...grey not wild type...and produce grey or blue colored birds (I've never done any Cemani). https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...ni-breeders-club-open-forum/680#post_13988477 EDITED TO ADD: the chicken color calculator does indicate that wild type is part of the melanizing genetics, and some blacks can hide some of that, but I still highly doubt the presence of such clear wild type. I would check that on the BYC Cemani thread. HOWEVER practically ALL the chicks have color other than black...good breeders know their stock better than that....and those would be chicks you would have to cull from a breeding program...to sell eggs where almost all the chicks come out looking like the wrong color type is very, very suspicious and the seller should be willing to back his lines better than that.

At the very least, it would be good to give a really, really, low rating and vivid warning to others on eBay...that ought to lower the seller's review ratings and protect other shoppers.

It is so sad that the world of poultry is riff with scammers, and it takes all of us speaking out when there has been clear fraud to protect other honest poultry enthusiasts.

Good luck with this.
LofMc

EDITED for content and to add: If I made a guess, I would guess Old English Game. Watch for comb types to help id the chicks as they grow.

 

[TeamChaos]

Thank you LofMc- unfortunately eBay has made their decision and they side with the seller. I provided all of the evidence you mentioned and then some, including the fact that the seller edits their feedback so they only have positive comments but to no avail. Paypal accepts ebay's decision automatically. Buyer beware!

 

[BantamLover21]

I agree they are definitely not Cemani as they would be all black, beak, comb, skin, eyes, tongue.

I'm not sure what you have though...I suspicion someone was very misleading.

Amazing hatch rate for shipped eggs...75% is really good.

LofMc

x2

 

[gloryblue]

Teamchaos I've been following all you've shared wrote a similar story from same ebay seller ...did the same fight, hours upon hour on the phone as well online....no satisfaction at all....I only had one of my doz come to full aided hatch...three fully developed. ...all four looking exactly like your middle chick ..'penguiny' none were fibromelonistic. .....

Though I've shared this story in complete detail I've found it missing from byc too for some odd reason, but the many attempts at leaving bad feedback gets erased right away....

I've been mostly frustrated with this whole thing as so many more after me like you have continued to be scammed....m single bird is now close to a year old now....I call him "Scammer" or "Scammy" as he's completely fake.he's birchen single combed...gold eyed, yellow and black legs and toes....body type and shape does look like the same I've seen on pictures of Ayam Cemani for a rooster....without any sign of fibro or without being completely black feathered either...

I'm a fighter always for what's right...having these people continuing to benefit at the expense of so many others like you and I is just wrong.....I just get so tired of seeing that no one has stopped them with this fraud, counterfeiting of these birds.

I'm so sorry I too didn't get anywhere in my battle to stop this long ago so you too would be were you are now...if you ever have success and need to add a name ...please add me.....we shouldn't be islands all seperately stewing on this continued fraud.
Most expensive bird I have but he's a counterfeit. .....if I can help? PM meanytime and I'll get you my email to add pictures of my Scammer bird...I'd add them here if I could but my phone won't do that on byc.
Blessings
You're not alone!

 

[TeamChaos]

Oh Gloryblue, I'm sorry you got scammed too I hope Scammy is at least a friendly bird. I've talked to a few people on Facebook who got ripped off by this person and I think there are a few more people here on BYC. How can we get everyone to contact eBay NOW about removing Bobfarm14 as a seller?