BQ hen, new layer, constipated from calcium grit?

[TheWeeBee]

My 5 mo old hen, Bee, just started laying eggs this week. I noticed that her egg shells aren't as hard as that of her older "aunties" and I've been supplementing her food with Hi-Cal grit by Kaytee. Tonight I saw her do a poo that was rather hard and had bits of the grit in it. Later on, she strained to make a bowel movement. I know that excess calcium can cause constipation, but will she be at risk for soft-shelled eggs if I just put basic oyster shell/charcoal grit in her food instead? I only give the Hi-Cal grit to my budgie hens when they're in the mood to brood. I've had several of them have complications with egg binding in the past, and the Hi-Cal grit has basically eliminated that problem. I add a sprinkle of it to my older BQ's food each day, and none of them have had issues with soft eggs or constipation.

 

[jbobs]

Technically the only birds that should be getting grit at all are birds that eat whole seeds. If a quail is on layer crumbles or processed feed of any kind, it should not have grit, as they can gorge on it and become impacted, which can be fatal. This goes for budgies too - budgies shell their seeds before they eat them, so grit is not required. They are really notorious for gorging on grit too. As a matter of afact a seed diet for budgies isn't ideal anyway - they love it but it's like giving them McDonald's every day. Pelleted feed is better.

But anyways back to the quail, I would not give her any grit. I think ground oystershell is a little more digestible, and personally I like the powdered calcium that i can mix in and coat their food with once a week.

Watch her carefully over the next few days, take that grit away and give her a bit of fresh veggie to help move it along! Good luck!

 

[TheWeeBee]

Hmm, I'd always thought that because quail are ground birds, that they would normally ingest some form of grit while feeding in the wild (to help break up insects and stuff). Perhaps I could offer the oystershell in a separate cup, so she can peck at if if she feels the need?

I cut up a summer squash and gave a big slice to all of my birds this morning, hopefully that should get some fiber in her

I'm also switching my budgies to a 50/50 pellet/seed diet, as one of my 3 year old hens has been dubbed "fat" by my vet and needs to lose 10 grams lol. I put dried greens in all of their seed dishes (budgies & quail). Excellent analogy to McD's & seed! lol

I'm a bit paranoid about the calcium issue, as I lost a hen to a prolapse a couple of years ago, and her mother had a hernia trying to pass an egg several years prior. Then two of my hens (the fatty mentioned above and her sister--both offspring of prolapsed hen) also have had complications with soft-shelled eggs/binding. Since I've been offering the hi-cal grit when they go broody, I've had zero complications with either of them.

But I'll try backing off of it, only offering the oystershell/charcoal mix

Bee did a poop this morning and while it was chalky, at least she was able to pass it! I'd say it was a #2 on the Bristol scale, hehe

 

[jbobs]

I think that quail in the wild would utilize grit more because of the type of stuff they are eating. In captivity the food we feed them is ground up already, just add water and it turns to mush. I think it would be okay to offer it to them once in a while, but not enough to allow them to pig out on it, as your hen obviously has, silly girl. I used high-cal grit once because I couldn't get powdered calcium and didn't have an issue with it - I used to do pretty much what you did, just put a few teaspoons on top the food or a little in a dish somewhere. But I found finely powdered calcium at my feed store and started using that instead, just put a couple teaspoons on top the feed once a week or so, or a little extra if I got a soft egg.

Great to hear that your vet knows his stuff about birds! 10g is a lot for a budgie LOL

 

[TheWeeBee]

Ah, that does make sense where the type of feed is concerned. Hadn't quite thought of it that way! I'll have to look for the calcium next time I go to the feed store. I wonder if human calcium + vitamin D supplements, ground to a powder, would work the same? Although it would probably be more beneficial just to give them calcium-rich greens like turnip & mustard greens, broccoli, kale, etc.

My vet is the bee's knees, lol. Dr. Elmer and Dr. Godfrey at Pinellas Animal Hospital in Pinellas Park, FL. They've extracted the soft-shelled and stuck eggs in my budgies, and stitched up Bee's head when she split it open last month.

 

[jbobs]

Ground up eggs shells work good too! I think I have used mashed up calcium pills in a pinch at one point too. I wonder if there is anything in it than would be hazardous to birds... I always worry about the vit. D in it, too much of any fat soluble vitamin can be bad for any living creature and I'm sure they are getting an adequate amount in their feed. A garlic press works great for crushing those big pills - I used to use one for crushing up my dog's glucosamine tabs into his food.

 

[TheWeeBee]

Well, I know that calcium carbonate is the cheapest, most widely available, and least bioavailable form of calcium. That seems to be what most of the powdered calcium supps for both birds and people are made of. I take citrate + D, and I know that in order for calcium to be absorbed you need to have adequate D levels. I would think that most outdoor flocks would get adequate D from natural sunlight, but I'd have to bring all of my birds outside every day for them to get the same.

 

[jbobs]

It's a common misconception that vit d comes from sunlight - the UV radiation we are exposed to just activates it/changes it (I don't know the science behind it lol) so that it becomes usable to our bodies, so we do need to take it in in our diet first. Most people and critters eating a natural, balanced diet get enough from the food they eat, but humans eat so much lovely crap food that they started puting vit. d in the milk to make sure everyone gets enough. I drink milk by the gallon so I have never bothered taking a calcium supplement, though I do take glucosamine and MSM...

yes calcium citrate is by far the better quality of calcium compared to calcium carbonate, but I think for the birds carbonate does the job. I have noticed that all of a sudden I would start getting crappy egg shells, and then add a couple tablespoons of calcium powder into the feed and boom, good egg shells again. So i started doing it once a week which seemed to work adequately.

What does everyone else here do for calcium? I'm sure there are a dozen different methods and methodologies behind it, what I do certainly isn't the end-all or the only option.

 

[TwoCrows]

I have learned something about calcium and how different forms of it differ. When I first started with poultry, I started with quail. I knew they needed calcium for hard egg shells, so the first thing I did for the female quail was take some of my parrots stash of cuttle bones and throw one in each of the quail cages. The females ate them with gusto and that first year I never had a single soft shelled egg.

Ok...so I stuck with cuttle bones for the quail til I got chickens. Well, I started using the bagged pullet sized oyster shell from Manna Pro on the chickens. So, why not offer it up the quail too! So I crushed it down and the girls ate it with gusto. However, all of a sudden the shells were getting a bit soft. Hmmm....

Well, not only was I getting tired of crushing the oyster shell for the quail, but with the soft egg shells, I decided to switch to the oyster shell that is actual chips of oyster shell. It is for those automatic dispensers. I also offered this up to the chickens. Well, about a month later, the chickens eggs shells are quite brittle and I am finding a ton of broken eggs. The quail are laying soft shelled eggs and even shell less eggs! I am also finding these chips in all the poultry's poop. So it is obviously not getting properly digested into the system, So enough of this stuff!!

So....I went back to cuttle bones for the quail. The chickens do fine on the pullet sized bites of oyster shell.

So the moral of the story, LOL, not all calcium is created equal and each bird's system will break it down and some can pull the calcium out of a certain substance and others not so much. Trial and error I guess.

 

[TheWeeBee]

I think I got everything straightened out with the Bee. I stopped giving her the hi-cal grit in her food, and now offer her the oyster shell/charcoal grit in a separate dish for her to peck at will. Her egg shells have been firmer and she's no longer constipated.