Breed Perfecting/ inbreeding???

rockin_chick32

In the Brooder
10 Years
Feb 21, 2009
25
0
32
WARNING: This is a long and confusing question...

I and getting some polish, spitzhauben, and phoenix chicks for a 4-H project. I am looking to breed them to "perfect" the breeds, and get them closer to the Standard of Perfection. Here's The tricky part...I do not know how to go about doing this.

I know you breed the first pair together and choose the chicks that are closest to the S.O.P, but who do I breed them with? And what about the next generations?

I heard somewhere that you breed all of the generations to the original pair, and when they pass away you use the generation that follows it. Is this true?

Obviously I am a Newbie to breeding, so ANY help will be appreciated. lol!
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Thank you for your time, and hope this is not too confusing!
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Glenda L Heywood

Songster
10 Years
Apr 11, 2009
1,436
47
171
rockin_chick32]WARNING: This is a long and confusing question...

I and getting some polish, spitzhauben, and phoenix chicks for a 4-H project. I am looking to breed them to "perfect" the breeds, and get them closer to the Standard of Perfection. Here's The tricky part...I do not know how to go about doing this.

ANSWER
have you reAD ANY THING ON LINE BREEDING?

WELL EACH FEMALE IS CONSIDERED A LINE
THUS THE MALE AND FEMALES USED NEED TO BE FROM DIFFERENT LINES

thus you breed say one male to 4 females
either by using seperate pens and putting the male in with 2 different female each 4 days

then when the chicks hatch
you have seperated the eggs from female line 1&2 in a pen in the incubator
you have sperated the eggs from female line 3&4 in the incubator

thus by toe punching them you can use a different toe punch for each line
Then you use the males from pen 1-2 on females from pen 3-4 and that gives more lines

Never breeding brother to sister
but breed father to daughter
sons to mothers
aunts to uncles
grandfather to grand daughters
etc
making many active breding lines


also I would go by toe puching number in my breed book as to the lines
and keep direct notations of what toe punches you mat what males to

it will give you several ways to mate them
Toe punch article for chicks
TOE PUNCHING CHICKS FOR IDENTIFICATION


When one makes up mating pens one must also assign
each pen a certain toe punch. Enter into a record book
this method
(1) the Pen Number
(2) the male birds band color and toe punch
(3) the females band color and toe punch
(4) now asign a different toe punch for the chicks and
record this.

When the breeders are mated and eggs laid one must
then gather the fresh eggs daily and with a #2 pencil
mark the number of the pen on the egg.

Now when the incubator is set take and put all the
same numbers on eggs in one of the many compartments,
you have made by putting across the hatching tray a
piece of hail screen cut to size the width of the
tray and in this width make two pens using hail screen
cut to fit.

Now take and make that tight enough to hold the
movement of the tray. or take some electrical ties and
tie the hail screen in several places

Each hatching tray can hold about 6 to eight
individual pens for eggs.

Now have a piece of the hail screen made to fit the
top of the tray so the hatched chicks can't get out
after hatching and mix with the other chicks.

Now on the hatching day you will see all these
biddies each in individual pens to mark, and on the
day you decide to take each setting tray and empty of
live chicks do this.

Take the hatching tray and lid on it to a table and
set it comfortabley down on the table and one pen by
one pen open each hatching pen. And mark each chick
before going to the next pen of chicks with the
assigned toe punch, that you hae written in a code
book.

Okay we will start
(1) pen #1 = toe punch with assigned code.
then take all chicks out one at a time from this
individual hatching pen.Put them in a nice basket with
handle and work just on these toe punching them one at
a time. Cover the other pens back with hail screen
lid, so they can't get out.

Now take one chick and with a toe punch tool which you
have to really bear down on so it cuts the hole big
enough to not heal over.

I prefer a cuticle sciscors and do this
holding chick in hand put finger under webs and with
other hand cut each toe web for the toe punch.

If using more than one punch in each web then need toe
punch tool. such as toe punching ducks webs

Say you are using the right inside web and left in
side web for pen #1
now cut the left inside web to end of its length and
then cut the right left inside web to end of its
length and it will not bleed if any.

Put the chick in a box you have for taking to brooder
or another basket with handle.

go thru and mark with cuticle sciscors all these
chicks
this toe punch from pen #1 and so on thru pen numbers
one pen at a time.

Now continue thru the rest of the pens doing each pen
one chick at a time and covering the tray of hatched
chicks so they can't mix up.

Now here is the whole set up of 16 punches for
marking

TOE PUNCHING INFORMATION
when the chick is hatched you cut the web
of the toe for the toe punch marks.the toe punch
clicker is just a punch and hole for the punch to
go thru taking the web with it. Make sure that you
punch hard and really get the web as it will grow shut
if not. That is why I like to cut with a cuticle
sciscors. It is more permanent.

Fred Jeffrey in his book bantam chickens gives the 16
possible toe punch combinations.
to start with
(1) no punch in any toe web

(2) punch left out side web
(3) punch right out side web

(4) punch left inside web
(5) Punch right inside web

(6) punch both left webs
(7 punch both right webs

(8)punch left outside and right outside webs
(9) punch left inside and right inside webs

(10) punch outside left web and right inside web
(11) punch inside left web and right outside web

(12) punch two left webs and outside right web
(13) punch two left webs and inside right web

(14) punch outside left web and two right webs
(15) punch inside left web and two right webs

(16) punch all four webs left and right

hope this helps.





I know you breed the first pair together and choose the chicks that are closest to the S.O.P, but who do I breed them with? And what about the next generations?

ANSWER
WELL YOU HAVE TO DENOTE THAT YOU HAVE TO DECIDE WHAT BIRDS ARE IN WHAT BREEDING PEN

THEN THE NEXT YR BREED AS i TOLD YOU UP FARTHER IN ARTICLE


Actually here is the thing to learn

you pick good parents that are not related closly
ie: not brother and sister

Your next generation after the first is called
F-1 generation

Also DO NOT pick any breeders that have defects or disqualifications


the above information will answer your questions

I heard somewhere that you breed all of the generations to the original pair, and when they pass away you use the generation that follows it. Is this true?

ANSWER
well you can keep the old birds till they are no longer able to breed
but the best objective is to only pick chicks that are the most to the standard
ie: with no defects or disqualifications


You need to learn this information and practice the art of breeding to the standard and not letting the birds go undocumented in your record keeping book from yr to yr

I know a pure bred breeder who started with 5 females and one male and 60 yrs later never ever entered a new bird

so it can be done
Email me
 

rockin_chick32

In the Brooder
10 Years
Feb 21, 2009
25
0
32
becky3086:
That has got to be the best explanation I have ever seen. I have saved it so I can look back on it.

Definitely! This is VERY informative! This is what I plan on doing as a part-time occupation after I finish high school and collage...This will help a great deal, so I saved it also.

Thank you so much...You have helped me a lot.
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flyingmonkeypoop

Crowing
12 Years
Apr 30, 2007
3,592
175
271
Deer Park Washington
I agree with what has been said. How many of each breed do you plan on having? How many colors do you plan on having of each breed? Do you plan on starting with hatchery chicks?

Even if you started with 2 pair of each breed/color you could work it out just right. Then just keep good records. With some breeds you can cross colors to get others. Like with polish you can cross blacks and blues or cuckoo with blacks/blues. With the phoenix you can cross all 3 common colors (BBR/light brown, golden, silver) and get the others (with exceptions).

Even if you have one rooster you can do alot. Like my dun laced wyandottes. I crossed a silver laced rooster with dun hens then crossed those pullets back to the father. Then I bred those back to the father and got what I wanted. Then I needed more silver laced that werent related to my others that much so I crossed in a blue laced red hen and kept the silver laced from that. Which as Glenda said one hen can make a new line.
 

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