Breed Standard?

[BlueTheBrahma]

Although it’s unfortunate to hear, i really appreciate this comment, i’ve been observing him today and some pictures from a bit ago (below) and I have to agree with you; even though there may be no awards in the future, thank you!

His secondaries are definitely right (black), but I can’t decide where is wing bar is. Either the shoulder is carrying over a black wing bar and blocking it or the wing bar is red, I can’t tell.

How comfortable are you handling him? If you are, maybe picking him up and trying to get a photo as you hold his wing open would help.

He does seem to have what I consider a classic American marans face. I have a hard time explaining what I mean by this, it’s something about the head shape and eyes but I’m not sure what. This is another reason why I think he is a relatively pure BCM.

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

Although it’s unfortunate to hear, i really appreciate this comment, i’ve been observing him today and some pictures from a bit ago (below) and I have to agree with you; even though there may be no awards in the future, thank you!

I recounted the serrations on his comb and actually there aren’t too many (they should have 5-7) - they are nice and evenly spread out too. The comb is just a tad too big.
Edit: looking again, I don’t actually know if the comb is too big, it’s on the bigger side but I wouldn’t say it is a problem.

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

I also think he has a good type (meaning body, size and symmetry). Not full marks but it is a promising combination of length, fullness and shape.

With the exception of the legs, which are the wrong colour and unfeathered, he has no major faults that will be horrible to work with if you breed him to BCM hens.

Are you planning to breed BCMs to the breed standard? If so, do you have any hens you would like me to evaluate?

 

[Shadrach]

I've got bad news all round.
That's not your son, assuming you're not a chicken.
That's not a proper Marans either.
These should give you an idea of what you should be looking for.

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

This is my FBCM rooster, Loki. In some ways, I’d say yours is actually better than him, but he has correct some of the problems in yours.

His wing is 100% correct: see the clear iridescent black wing bar in between the secondaries and deep red shoulder.

His legs are pink-white with grey shading. This is how they should be. They should not be all slate grey, yellow or greenish. They are also correctly feathered. The feathers are short and down the outside of the leg, ending sparsely on the outside toe. Anything more is too much, none and you have the English standard (although Black Copper is not a recognised pattern for our standard).

Notice how is hackles and saddle is much more vibrant than yours. The deepest red is reserved for the shoulder, the rest should be orange, lustrous copper. This is something many breeders get wrong: they breed for the darkest colour and not the boldest colour. If I remember correct, @wrathsfarm ‘s roo Kong has an even bolder colour.

A few problems with mine are in his tail: it is too big and messy, and held too high (this is called squirrel tail). Yours is better here because the angle is closer to the correct 45 degrees from the back. The white in the tail is also a problem, it often increases with age but is something that needs to be bred out. It’s a shame @Chooks man is inactive because he has some excellent type birds.

Like I say, Loki isn’t perfect either, but I’ve included him to show you the differences between a bird bred without a good understanding of the breed standard and one bred with the breed standard in mind. There are just a few problems which are a matter of annoying genetics, but these can be fixed by crossing to the right hen.

 

[Amer]

I've got bad news all round.
That's not your son, assuming you're not a chicken.
That's not a proper Marans either.
These should give you an idea of what you should be looking for.
View attachment 3795137View attachment 3795138

Shadrach, if you are from the UK, why do your Marans have feathered legs? I thought British ones had clean legs for some reason and that they had feathered legs everywhere else. Genuinely curious.

 

[Shadrach]

Shadrach, if you are from the UK, why do your Marans have feathered legs? I thought British ones had clean legs for some reason and that they had feathered legs everywhere else. Genuinely curious.

I lived in Catalonia, Spain for ten years and the pictures are from there. The chickens in the pictures are from Marans in France.

 

[wrathsfarm]

If I remember correct, @wrathsfarm ‘s roo Kong has an even bolder colour.

I seem to post a ton of pics of Kong in the Marans thread only because he such a ham...
Like said I'm not an expert but I've been told his coloring is nice. He's got a big comb and not a very good 'type' (narrows towards back, not wide all the way) and he's a little over colored in the chest.
But like @BlueTheBrahma mentioned. I consider @Chooks man to be a Marans expert and my mentor and he once told me.
"We work with what we have, if we cull all our chooks for every problem, we won't have any chooks"

 

[BlueTheBrahma]

Shadrach, if you are from the UK, why do your Marans have feathered legs? I thought British ones had clean legs for some reason and that they had feathered legs everywhere else. Genuinely curious.

French standard marans exist in the UK too. You can’t show them but specifically the black copper variety gained so much popularity in recent years people shipped them over from the Continent or the States.

Many hobbyists don’t realise that when they get the famous BCM, it isn’t actually as big a deal in England as they aren’t a recognised variety. I did this at first. I think the French standard is truer to the original so breed my BCMs to that standard, but want to introduce the older marans blood into some English types to produce showable birds.

Another reason is because the French strains usually lay the darkest eggs. In England they were bred in days gone by as dual purpose birds rather than show birds, so the egg colour was lost.

 

[Shadrach]

Not wishing to start a flame war but interested in original breeds I feel I should point out that there were no BCMs bred in Marans France. BCMs are an American breed copy as far as I've been able to trace. If one was to go to Marans in France years ago a asked the locals for a Black Copper Maran they would likely throw you out.
There were Marans and that was it.
Now, looking at the internet many places have adopted the Americanism of calling Marans, BCMs. A shame in my opinion.
Unfortunately this has happened to many breeds from Europe and Asia that have been imported to the USA by the hatcheries.
The French were rather proud of their Marans breed. We got lots of bonus points in the eyes of the breeders for going to Marans to view and collect what they considered to be proper examples of their breed.