Breeding Buff Leghorns

[danhonour]

Hi Arie,your Buff Dutch cross onto Buff Leghorn are interesting.I like the length of leg and I think the heads look good,especially for their age.I think the white earlobes will be extra good.The comb texture looks good also.Since the Dutch were dark in shade I think that will be a plus for many years and the improved vigor and egg production should be noticed. Since you have a good number I would not use those with white in the tails.I would keep some of your pure Buff Leghorns going too help keep your Leghorn shape and feathering.By feathering,I mean the cushion and saddles.This will fill in the back in front of the tail and prevent the abrupt brake at the juncture of the back and tail.The Dutch cross appear high in the shoulder and that is a game trait,something to watch but also something that may correct itself with additional Buff Leghorn blood. If possible select against short legs and long wings,they belong on Chabo (Jap bantams) and Seramas.

 

[ArieBLB]

Thank you Dan for your recommendation. I will the animals with blank in the tails clear and hope that there then animals remain with long legs and short well attracted wings. Concerning leg colour tries I that at this generation take along as much as possible in the selection and look or it is possible all find properties in 1 animal. My priority lies now at the colour, leg length and at the type and format. And then if possible also at the combs and leg colour.
If you think I have to select otherwise let me know please.....Arie

 

[danhonour]

Arie I think you are right to pick only a few things at a time.If you try to pick too many things at once you may well have none that pass . Dan

 

[ArieBLB]

Quote:
Thanks Dan, for the advice.

Arie

 

[poultch]

Interesting pics Cochinman!
Is that barring? Would be cool if you could get barred buff while you were at it.

But I too am interested to see and hear other peoples thoughts and experiences re outcrossing. As i live in a country where I only know one other breeder of Buff leghorns, i am going to have to consider looking to one of the more common varities for type size and vigour.
I see that Arie has outcrossed to white, but what are peoples thoughts on using a brown? My thinking is that at least you can see wht is in the browns' genotype mix rather than guessing as to what is hiding underneath the dominant white

 

[ArieBLB]

Quote:
Hello Poultch, I think that you can try the Brown Leghorns. If you take an very good colored Buff Leghorn male x Light Brown Leghorn female it must be possible in a few years to get some good ones.
Take an good female with the right type and right vigour. Look at the black pepper on their back. It must be less pepper on their drawings. Less black is the best. When created the Buff Leghorn Bantams they used also Brown Leghorn blood. Dan Honour told me that in 1932 L. Debee started to breed a line Buff Leghorn Bantams by picking a small standaard Buff Leghorn male and mating him with an Brown Leghorn Bantam female.
I think that you can do this also with the Large Fowl Buff Leghorns. Do you have the possibility to get some good LF Brown Leghorns? Maybe some one in your direction will help you to find them over there. Good luck ...Arie

 

[danhonour]

I have read about many crosses with buff.My Buff book has many detailed accounts and buff histories in its 400 plus pages. In my 40 years working with Buff Leghorns I have made a few crosses too.Those being recessive white,dominant white and red duckwing.With Leghorns,White Leghorns are common and usually dominant white,hence Buff Leghorns often have dominant white hidden in the geneotype. Dominant white is a funny factor as White Leghorns are really a black bird with pigmentation stopped,hence white leghorns are closely associated with barred,black,blue,smokey,lavender,etc. My point is White Leghorns and dominant white are not the best choices to use.They can be used and I have done it,it takes about 4 backcrosses to Buff males to get back to good buff color. Recessive white often has colors/patterns hidden underneath and will show up in the f1 and f2,generally I find duckwing under recessive white.If you use Light Brown Leghorn (red Duckwing),it is the wild type with dilute.Dark Brown Leghorns are often Db ,not wild type(-no dilute and no salmon breast). Buff is on wheaton and the chicks are all creamy,duckwings have back stripes.If you cross Buff (wheaton) with duckwing wild type (back stripes) ,the f1 are split for both alleles namely wheaton and duckwing.The chicks will be intermediate downed having faint back markings and spotted heads instead of clean buff or cream as wheaton or neck stripe and eye markings of duckwings.If the f1 are mated back to Buff (wheaton) about25% should be buff/wheaton,50% split like F1,and 25% duckwing striped.Select the wheaton /buff 25% and mated back again to buff and you will be on your way.Another point,you may get black tailed reds and these are genetically on wheaton too and can be used (black tailed red males have red breasts). Duckwing males are black breasted. Black Leghorns can be used,it is better on the female side ,and will take about 4 backcrosses to buff,with black you will not know what is hidden(stay away from the silvers and silver birchen),with buff you want golds/reds not silvers.With black (and sometimes other crosses) you will get dark shanks-willow green.By backcrossing to pure buff leghorn males enough generations you can get back the yellow legs. It takes about 4-5 years to get back good buff color after an outcross to another color. If you are willing to invest the time and all the culls,it can work,and at the same time type to incorporate some other good Leghorn traits from the other (non buff) color;like size,egg production,egg size,big white shapely earlobes,great type,etc. .Now you know why I would rather recommend staying within the Buffs,raising big numbers,culling heavy and not breeding too close (wide based gene pool).

 

[Buff Leghorn]

Ok everyone ive got some pic's of my chicks for you all to have a look at and tell how they look .

Can anyone explain the dark patch on the back of the head i have about 8 in this hatch the rest are a nice cream down all over.

I know it's only early days but wing feather look to be very peppered hope they clean up at first moult.

Not the best picture to get the colour right they look very light in this picture but you can see the backs of the heads have a marking on it .

These chicks are out of the best 3 hens ive got and by the cockeral i bred i'll try a darker coloured cockeral as well once i have enough of this cross out .

all comments welcome good or bad.

cheers shane

 

[danhonour]

Hi Shane,glad to see you have chicks out.It is nice to make notes as to chick down color shade and markings,especially if you can ID them later on.

In general I find the pale buff chicks are pale/light buff adults,medium and dark buff as also similar to adult shade.Those with little head spots or big head/neck marks,if either brown or black,end up with pepper in tail or wings and sometimes chestnut red in lesser sickles of males. Those with light/whitish heads often show white in tails as well as faint white back striped chicks.Black striping in back end up with a lot of pepper in tails,wings and gray undercolor in males and back markings on female backs.Real dark buffs are reddish adults often with pepper. Unless you have big numbers ,you should not color cull to soon. It can be effective on a large scale,I recall reading where Mr Knapp sold thousands of Buff Leghorn chicks and by keeping the sound medium even shade of buff chicks for himself as breeders,ended up doing some great improvements in color in his high production strain of Buff Leghorns.

 

[Buff Leghorn]

Hi Dan

I had the same thing last year but only hatched a few and didn't mark the dark headed ones. This time they are toe puched and i can keep an eye on them. i think they grew up as the dark tailed ( black) buffs .

i'll keep you posted on how they go it's a little exciting this year to see how they grow out.
I'm goin to use another cockeral i breed he will be by a different rooster and he is a darker buff bird so it will be interesting to see what happens when i use him. i think the colour between him and the hens might be to far apart but i'll give him a try.

The colour i would be looking for in my chicks is the head of the chick in the middle of the last picture he is looking left towards the campine chicks i would like to see that darker shade all over.
Am i right that darker shade all over ?


cheers shane