Breeding Buff Leghorns

[ArieBLB]

Hello all, thanks for your comment. I am very glad with the first achieved results and hope these permanently being able lay in the following generations. It falls indeed on that female the more type have of the Leghorn and that the male more properties of Dutch has. The males have nice lobe color but their skin is not yellow yet. Maybe it will change, I hope not. The females have a light yellowish beak colour. The Pure Buff Dutch have a white beak colour. Perhaps gives the F2 already animals with yellow coloured legs. Some cross females have wide fanned tails and wings,both of a nice solid buff. Danne, I think I have with these females some wings that are not to long but I want have them a little shorter in a few generations. I hope that the jury members of the Dutch Leghorn club can appreciate also these improvements. Many people do not have the patience to invest 5 years in a group animals with which they not can show. They do not rapidly an out cross because they want gladly show their animals. It has been ventured to do these out cross. I have too little space to breed much young animals and too little space them sufficiently has let them grow out.

I do not give up fast and am cocksure, and for this reason continue I.
For this reason I hope that I can you give, from time up to time an update of the continuation.

Thanks for your support and positive words. Arie

 

[cochinman2005]

Arie,
I can appreciate your efforts in improving the Buff Leghorn Bantams. I am working Large Buff Minorcas, and last year did a cross to Blacks. This spring I bred the f1's together and then bred a pure Buff male X Black cross females, and Black cross male X Pure Buff females. So the f2's are of varying shades. Some of the Cross X Cross look exactly like their parent stock, with the females being sort of buff in the hackle and blackish/brown the rest of their body and the male being a Black tailed Red looking bird. However I do have a few of the Cross X Cross f2 birds that are mostly Buffs and even a couple have white legs. The Pure Buff x Cross and Cross X Pure Buff produced a good number of Buff offspring with white legs, although the shade of Buff is very dark. Some with slate undercolor and some without. It's now just sitting back and watching them mature to pick the best type and size for the f3 generations. All the while I've kept a line of pure Buffs going too. The goal with these is to improve type and size, as the Buff Minorcas in the U.S. are way too small and don't compare at all in type to our Blacks.

I'll post some pics of the progress soon.

Tom

 

[ArieBLB]

Quote:
Hello TOM, Buff Minorca' s has been recognised in the Netherlands but I have here never seen them. I have been aroused curiosity to the photograph. For the best colour I use generally combinations pure buff cocks to F1 and the F2 hens. Afterwards I do generally just F3 x F3. I will try the coming season possibly nevertheless already F1 x F1. For repairing the colour need you as much a couple generations. For this the rule is, breed large numbers and select very well.

 

[cochinman2005]

Arie,
I agree about hatching large numbers. This year with the f2 matings in the Minorcas anything that came out of the incubator looking llike the originally cross parents (Black chicks with red heads), was culled. I only kept chicks that were either buff colored primarily or wild type striped and then as they've aged I've started culling for leg color keeping the birds with White legs or very light Blue. I will get some photos taken over the weekend of the different color variations.

Tom

 

[danhonour]

Arie and Tom,it is great to be working with you both and it is nice that you know each other from posting about your Buff breedings and crosses.

One thing that we should state to others reading about our cross projects;the cull rate is often 90-98%,especially in the early stages.However the few birds that can come from these experimental lines can be of great value and can ultimately take your stock to new higher levels of quality.I have seen it time after time.You can breed the same quality and make only a small gain sticking with the original line,but the right new combination of genes can do wonders when it is properly worked in.This sort of work is not for everyone,but it is a knack and something some breeders are good at.It takes imagination,thought,and preservation to make it work. Dan H.

 

[ArieBLB]

Quote:
Hello Dan, I find it also fine and even an honour be possible work for the conservation of this beautiful race with You, Keith, Tom, Sam and a lot of others. Together we can introduce all knowledge which we acquire and pass on to others. This helps to the race which we charm already as long as.
About our cross projects;the cull rate is very high, especially in the early stages of the projects.

 

[lildinkem]

Great topic of taking the best of breeder's line for just one quality trait and forget the color, blend them in.
My Black on Buff cross was done at the time for an intentional result. To see IF my Akers Buff Orps were fertile. I took over a great local breeders Buff Orp flock to do something with them. To find out first IF they were able to be bred and produce a fertile egg. I use, what I thought at the time to be a pure hatchery quality Black Australorp. Who happened to have that high stiff tail feathers that was passed down. Here are pics of the results and lineage of the breeding.

Here is the Australorp mix hatchery bird from Meyer as it turns out. I originally thought My Healthy. I stand to be corrected for the record.

That male was taken to these Buff hens

After I found out these hens were layin fertile eggs. I killed their eggs. And bought Buff male from Akers and breed him to the girls. Well the new Buff boy didn't do the job. But the girls were still layin fertile eggs on day 15 after being isolated form the Aussie male. So I hatched out 5 birds. Noticeably not purebred. Gave away 4 on CL. And kept this boy.
I call him BUSTOFF, he was a 7 month ole here in November last fall when I took these.

I took him to these girls

And he seems to produce some nice blacks. Like this little guy.
Unfortunately some here on the other breed threads just don't get it. There are far too few breeders dedicating themselves to keeping our APA birds healthy and show worthy. I am glad to see I am not the only one who thinks like me. Keep it going guys.
Here is what I got from my male 50/50 blend.
Forgot to say I call him Buford. Or BOOOOOO

 

[danhonour]

F1 (first crosses) can look interesting,but since they are heterozygous for most of their genes ,they are all over the board when bred from.If you raise big numbers of a f1 x f1 mating you can get a few looking something like parent breeds.If you backcross to one of the pure parent breeds,usually in the second backcross to pure,you start getting birds like the pure.I know some people who persist can work in a cross and take it back to a pure breeding group,but it takes time,it was known as (grading up ) years ago.Breeders do this with a plan,and with intentions of taking them back to pure status,with perhaps a few improvements selected. I know of a case where a man had a commercal flock of a few hundred layers,he went to a real good breeder and would buy 3 or 4 cockerels to breed with his best layers.He would raise chicks,then every two years get another 3 or 4 cockerels from the same breeder.He was using the grade up method.After about 10-12 years he had a big flock of birds nearly as good as the breeder he was buying from,at a small cost.The improvements were coming from the breeders breeding he was buying from.

 

[Birch Run Farm]

I've got a buff chick this morning, hatched under a broody. Hoping for more yet! The chick has a deep gold color through out.

 

[lildinkem]

When I did my breeding, the last thought in my mind was to be making a new Black Orp line. I really didn't know how endangered the real Show quality Black Orps are in the states. And as I read here you Buff Leghorn folks have the same issue. I talked to a great local Poutry expert (Jack Patterson) last night for a few mins. His concern is also my concern. Too many people are breeding for color projects and our heritage breeds standard colors are no longer being given the attention to keep the breeds healthy. I see this in other breeds as well.
And after my BUS started to grow up. He became suddenly a hot commodity. My main Black Orp breeder wanted him. So, I thought I would see what the big fuss is over him. So I did a test hatch. The first 2 chicks were obviously mixed. I took a break with him for a month or so, then took him back to Blacks, and that was the ticket. He started to punch out equal numbers of quality type, size as my solid color birds. To be honest, I think my best Black Orp chick is from BUS.
So, my thoughts are now. Do not concern yourself with the color in your F-1's They carry the color you want. For my F-1's, TYPE and a tail will get you a longer life. OBVIOUSLY, BUSTOFF is no one's idea of a great color. And to many of the other threads I introduced him too, he is very much disliked. That means USE HIM!!! lolololol I feel my Black program can use a side freak show. Unfortunately for those folks, BUS is making very nice Blacks, And like Dan H says, you can expect to cull 90%. Which is close to what I expect to cull of my purebred colored birds anyway.
So, please do not fear mixing Buff to Blacks. The main threat of Red leakage to a Black man is no biggie. To maintain the lustorous Black green sheen, you need RED in their make up. The lite eye is a quick and easy cull. In 2 or 3 generations I expect to be making pure blacks with few defects. As it is now, this year is ALL about making the very best bird I can. All for the Crossroads show here in Indy next year. And BUS has kids on the ground who will be there. Hope you all who live close will go to the big show. First time it will be held here in INDY and east of the Ole MISS.
Have fun with your birds. And HAVE NO FEAR!