Breeding Delawares to the Standard of Perfection

[finnfur]

So trying to cobble together everything Ive read so far on this breed im trying to get an idea of the weights(dressed and live() I should be expecting Male and Female and Point of lay for this breed

My experience so far with hatchery Del pullets is that they end up at POL between 24 and 26 weeks some might be early some later but as an average it seems reasonable for the breed.


I expect to process cockerels not selected for breeding at about 24 weeks. And pushing Maybes to 36 weeks.
What kind of weights should I expect by these ages.
Or to put it another way I hope to be able to process a dressed 4lb bird at 24 weeks what is this a reasonable expectation.

For layers I should expect 5 eggs a week on average to be considered good layers my current hatchery dels meet this condition none of my birds from Kathy's line even come close.

Chris
Some where on here or Kathy thread I posted kill/dressed weights - maybe you could do a search. I think I posted twice.
My hens I figure a egg every other day average - taking into account sometimes severe molts like this year and winter.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Chris
Some where on here or Kathy thread I posted kill/dressed weights - maybe you could do a search. I think I posted twice.
My hens I figure a egg every other day average - taking into account sometimes severe molts like this year and winter.

I keep records when it's convenient. My two starter pullets gave me an average of about 10 eggs per week after they came into lay (winter months, with no artificial lighting). I stopped counting when the broody hens in their pen were also laying. If you extend that out over 52 weeks, that's 5 eggs each per week ... 260 eggs per year ... which puts them up with the expected productivity of a brown-egg-laying hatchery hybrid, and which (according to this source) is nearly twice the average of what was expected in 1947.

http://extension.psu.edu/animals/po...onal-material/the-chicken/modern-egg-industry

So, as with the exaggerated expectations of meat production we put on our Heritage Delaware cockerels, I think we're putting exaggerated expectations on the Delaware pullets, too.

I got similar numbers from the next year's pullets while I was counting.

But ... my Delawares don't lay that well for the full 12 months of their "pullet year," which I believe is counted from POL, not from their hatching date. They do slow down the following fall/winter (again, no artificial lighting in my coops). I've got 8 of last year's pullets (now hens) in my breeding coop, they've been molting for weeks, and I'm getting more like 2-5 eggs per day from them at the moment. That's about 2.6 eggs per week per hen, or 136 eggs per year.

 

[caychris]

I keep records when it's convenient. My two starter pullets gave me an average of about 10 eggs per week after they came into lay (winter months, with no artificial lighting). I stopped counting when the broody hens in their pen were also laying. If you extend that out over 52 weeks, that's 5 eggs each per week ... 260 eggs per year ... which puts them up with the expected productivity of a brown-egg-laying hatchery hybrid, and which (according to this source) is nearly twice the average of what was expected in 1947.

http://extension.psu.edu/animals/po...onal-material/the-chicken/modern-egg-industry

So, as with the exaggerated expectations of meat production we put on our Heritage Delaware cockerels, I think we're putting exaggerated expectations on the Delaware pullets, too.

I got similar numbers from the next year's pullets while I was counting.

But ... my Delawares don't lay that well for the full 12 months of their "pullet year," which I believe is counted from POL, not from their hatching date. They do slow down the following fall/winter (again, no artificial lighting in my coops). I've got 8 of last year's pullets (now hens) in my breeding coop, they've been molting for weeks, and I'm getting more like 2-5 eggs per day from them at the moment. That's about 2.6 eggs per week per hen, or 136 eggs per year.

I was setting the expectation of 5 a week for early spring through late fall. winter and molt are obvious conditions that will slow them down. Broody well thats just broody.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

I was unclear ... the broodies I mentioned weren't the Delaware breeders. They were from the laying flock, living in the breeding coop to hatch and raise chicks from the breeders. When they started to lay, I stopped counting eggs from that coop.

But I think maybe we should be basing our expectations more on the 150 number, which was good for brown egg layers back when Delawares were "invented?" I think that's a number we can do these days. Even with molts and winters. Probably can manage better with the better layers. And then we'd feel happy instead of sad.

I haven't had a lot of Delaware broodies yet. I've never given one eggs. It's on the list. Once I know my flock can hatch and raise chicks I'll believe it's sustainable.

 

[finnfur]

I was unclear ... the broodies I mentioned weren't the Delaware breeders. They were from the laying flock, living in the breeding coop to hatch and raise chicks from the breeders. When they started to lay, I stopped counting eggs from that coop.

But I think maybe we should be basing our expectations more on the 150 number, which was good for brown egg layers back when Delawares were "invented?" I think that's a number we can do these days. Even with molts and winters. Probably can manage better with the better layers. And then we'd feel happy instead of sad.

I haven't had a lot of Delaware broodies yet. I've never given one eggs. It's on the list. Once I know my flock can hatch and raise chicks I'll believe it's sustainable.

Of my five original F4s two go broody as soon as spring hits - this year I am hatching what they lay because they are better hens.
Had a hard time getting enough eggs to hatch first year.
I am ok with 150>180 year. Not selling but do a lot of trading for extras.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Of my five original F4s  two go broody as soon as spring hits - this year I am hatching what they lay because they are better hens.
Had a hard time getting enough eggs to hatch first year.
I am ok with 150>180 year. Not selling but do a lot of trading for extras.

Good plan.

Next season I'm going to have to decide if I breed forward, breed backward, or breed some and some.

I'll probably have fewer eggs to sell from the laying flock. We aren't feeling ready to sell hatching eggs or chicks quite yet.

 

[finnfur]

Good plan.

Yes and I won't have naked chickens running around at 40 degree night weather- they will have molted by then with a early hatch - I hope

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Yes and I won't have naked chickens running around at 40 degree night weather- they will have molted by then with a early hatch - I hope

Haha! And they might lay better their pullet year if they get going in fall. Maybe.

 

[caychris]

Haha! And they might lay better their pullet year if they get going in fall. Maybe.

My hatchery dels were hatched in Feb a started laying early fall.

 

[LeslieDJoyce]

Breeding for Color Correction ... Specifically, I think, balancing the silver and the columbian so that the body of the bird is white (and stays white), specifically in pullets ... so this isn't the Brassy Cock Problem, or the Black/Barred tails problem, both of which I'm familiar with. I have the usual problem of black leaking down the back.

But I've also got red, and that's the problem I'd love to get lots of opinions on.

I've got salmon tinges showing up on some of my pullets. Experience from last year tells me that matures into some red feathers by the time they've reached POL, and some pullets that have white bodies their whole pullet year turn some shade of buff/buff-barred/red/brown on their backs as they feather in after their first adult molt.

This happened with BOTH of the females in my starter trio from the F4s in this project line. They both molted into buff barring on their backs at about 18 months.

I culled both the starter females (F4s), and culled their pullets (F5s) hard for color problems before selecting breeders this past spring. Now those F5 breeder hens are molting and I believe I *might* end up with one or two that are still white. I'm still waiting on that.

Besides several cockerels that hatched this spring, I have two males ... the one from my starter trio, and one I hatched last year. They're both molting. The starter male shows no hints of brassy, and I may have spotted one tiny tinge of salmon on a sickle feather before it molted out. The son was looking a little brassy going into molt, so I'm watching him closely now to see how his fresh feathers look.

No corn in my feed, but plenty of sunshine and access to tender greens when in season.

Is my little corner of the line "doomed?"

How do I best move forward? @gjensen or @fowlman01 or anyone with enough genetics experience to tell me if this is fixable ... ?

Here is a photo of my "worst" hen from last year's hatch (F5) ... this is how she finished her first adult molt.

Note: I saw this coming, so she wasn't in my breeding pen this past spring. I love her wide head, I love her wide back. I love her wide tail (and it's color), though it could be a tad more organized. She seems to have lovely wide smooth feathers. But the color

Brainstorming ideas, please. I promise I won't try them all.