Breeding Dogs

[Cara]

Any dog is going to be a financial sinkhole. I've been in the situation where I had to decide between surgery and euthanasia because of cost/chance of success, and i'm sure I may be again at some point, but it is a horrible decision to make. We are not well off by any stretch, but when a dog from hip scored lines costs a few hundred dollars more and a total hip replacement may be several thousand, i'd rather pay the extra. I understand some people may find it easier to euthanise a dog that needs expensive vet care. Some do see their dogs as livestock, others as family members.

My Bloodhound was diagnosed with Wobbler's Disease last month and it has been a difficult time. She is only two years old. In her case it is most likely not caused by genetics but by an accident, in some breeds it is (particularly Great Danes and Dobermans). The decision is between a $10,000 surgery that has a 50% chance of paralysing her, steroids, or management with supplements/acupuncture. We have been pursuing the latter option and she is currently doing quite well, but this episode has put me off ever having a breed of dog where this condition is more prevalent. Through our acupuncturist we have found out about an experimental treatment that may help her. The cost is approximately $750. We've had several comments to the effect that no dog is worth spending that much on. However, she is young and is also a good SAR dog. I thought my husband would be against the treatment, growing up in an environment where a dog is 'just a dog'. After thinking it over though, he concluded that if she can recover to the point of going back to work and can save just one life, she's well worth it. It is a subjective matter, but I hope nobody else has to decide how much their dog is worth if a simple, cheap test can prevent it.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

If genetic testing is so good then why are people not doing it when they have kids?


Culling is still better.



An my hart ache with my pets has been public on here. Having to put Jerry down because I did not have $500 for a treatment that probably would not work.

Bo my new puppy I got for $150. Thats what I could afford out of my $600 a month disability check. He was from someone who had only 2 dogs an did no shots or anything. Not the ideal situation but I'm happy someone was selling dogs I could afford. Does that make me not deserving of a dog. Im sorry anyone advocating the "spend a lot charge a lot" way of breeding has never had to do without a pet becouse they cost 2 or 3 times your monthly income.

You can breed helthy dogs an sell them for about $300. Going higher may make debatable a few healthier dogs but it forces most people to go to the market filled with people that dont do anything but breed what they have because that's what many people can afford.

 

[horsejody]

Quote:

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

Not exactly how I ment that but probably true.

 

[gritsar]

I tried to read all the posts before posting myself.
I have had rescue dogs all my life. They often come with alot of baggage and I have the time and inclination to deal with it.
My DH always wanted a purebred GSD. Fate brought Jax into our lives at a time when we really needed him; devastated as we were over my Charlie Girl's death. Charlie was a rescue.
By written agreement, Jax's original owner was supposed to return him to the breeder if he decided he didn't want him. The owner chose to ignore that agreement and stuck Jax outside in an 8 ft. x 8 ft. kennel instead.
Now Jax is ours and lives as part of our family.
So in love with Jax are we that we decided we wanted another just like him. We contacted the breeder and have paid close attention to how they raise the breed and what their motivations are for breeding. The breeder's number one priority is obviously a love for the breed. The puppies are raised with the upmost care. They don't charge a fortune for the puppies; really IMO $500 is not a fortune for a purebred GSD from german lines.
The parents are genetically tested, their hips are certified and their dogs live a really good life on their farm.
Is the breeder making a fortune breeding GSDs? I doubt it, given the cost and time involved in giving proper care to 14 adult GSDs and however many pups that have at any given time.
So, I guess what I'm trying to say is rescues are great. I'm sure Charlie won't be my last one. But you should not feel guilty if you want a purebred dog in your life. You should however be expected to do your research and buy from a responsible breeder.

 

[chinbunny]

Quote:
This is simply not true. Two stray dogs may produce a healthy litter, does that make the foundation of a breeding program?

Stray dogs breeding create mutts. Mutts are healthier because they have a greater mix of genetics. Think of hybrid vigor. Purebred dogs are much more likely to have genetic problems show up because the gene pool is so much smaller. It's best to test for any genetic defect that is cost effective and easy to test for.

Not true. I breed purebred rabbits. I hear that argument all the time. And I am pretty sure breeding and genetics are about the same as purebred dogs. Breed mutts of unknown backgrounds together and you increase your chances of seeing problems. Breed two purebred animals together, that are free from disease, and there is less chance of seeing a problem. Though you will still see them pop up from time to time. Purebred animal breeders work to keep their stock healthy, by selective breeding, even those that do it for looks. Selling unhealthy stock will end up getting you a bad rep, and nobody will buy from you. So mutts also have their own share of problems.

 

[chinbunny]

Quote:
This is simply not true. Two stray dogs may produce a healthy litter, does that make the foundation of a breeding program? Responsible breeders take advantage of all the resources at their disposal to produce healthy dogs; those wishing to make a quick buck will cut corners. If i'm buying a purebred puppy, I want to know the dog has come from a breeding program centered around health, longevity and temperament. For this I am willing to pay significantly more than your average newspaper advertisement puppy. Owning two intact dogs does not make a person a 'breeder'. An extra $500 or so is a small price to pay in comparison to surgery and heartbreak.

Any breeder can produce a dog with a genetic problem, but the key is how they deal with it. If they don't test, they may not know until it's too late and they have produced several litters with the problem (which in turn have been bred, exacerbating the problem). How can you breed away from a problem that may not be apparent to the naked eye for several years? Selective breeding is the only way to eliminate genetic diseases in dogs, and genetic testing is the best way to identify a problem.

I never said anything about stray dogs. I said that most dog breeders do not have to use genetic testing to produce healthy dogs. If I want a puppy I will go support a family breeder and go get one out of the local paper. Of course I would still want a healthy dog that would have a nice long life. You also can't turn on the longevity gene. There is no possible way to breed an animal to live longer since you don't whats going to happen to it later on in its life.

A good breeder should know their breeding lines. Thats how things were done before genetic testing was even thought of. And its still how a lot do it today. There are a lot of family breeders (not the so called backyard breeder) that don't do genetic tests that still produce healthy dogs. My neighbor used to breed show, and sell standard and miniature poodles. She never did genetics tests on them. She could tell you which breedings produce bad tempered dogs, genetic defects, ect, and really knew her stuff. She also did profit off them somewhat. The puppies she produced were very healthy. The parents were both AKC, and UKC registered. She only went to one or two shows a year. There are countless others around my county producing healthy dogs that do not show.

 

[dbolman]

This has been a interesting post to read. I am also one o of the breeders. I show and raise Bernese Mountain Dogs. It is amazing how much differing opinions there are on this subject. I have only the females in my home (3). I do not keep my dogs in kennels and they are also part of our working farm. My females are intact and they never fight, so it is truly dog specific and sometimes the actual breed. We health test eyes, heart, thyroid, hips and elbows. Sometimes you can raise and show a dog for 2 years and they could be practically perfect in every way; but if one test does not pass they get fixed. I also take my dogs back at any age. Every year I send out a questionnaire regarding their health, temperment and the owners overall happiness with the dog. Many of my owners are repeat buyers. I have a male at my house right now for breeding and he is marking every bush and tree in my yard

There are many, many unethical breeders. Just because someone shows their dog does not mean they do all the right health testing of their dogs. Like anything in life it is up to you the buyer to ask questions and look into the breeder. I let my buyers have full access to the health records of the adults. And when someone says their dogs are OFA certified; ask to look at the actual certificates. You cannot just take people by their word

(sad but true) Even though I get 1500.00 for a puppy, ask me what I have into this litter before it is all said and done

It is one hard way to make money. BUT I love this breed. They are the ultimate loving, laid back dog. So I try to improve with every litter. I totally agree with getting to know breeders in your area and building from there. Stay away from co-ownership unless you fully trust and respect the person's breeding program. And don't do the one thing that many dog people do...NEVER put a dog before a friendship. It is still a dog.

Tracy

 

[Redyre Rotties]

Quote:
This is simply not true. Two stray dogs may produce a healthy litter, does that make the foundation of a breeding program? Responsible breeders take advantage of all the resources at their disposal to produce healthy dogs; those wishing to make a quick buck will cut corners. If i'm buying a purebred puppy, I want to know the dog has come from a breeding program centered around health, longevity and temperament. For this I am willing to pay significantly more than your average newspaper advertisement puppy. Owning two intact dogs does not make a person a 'breeder'. An extra $500 or so is a small price to pay in comparison to surgery and heartbreak.

Any breeder can produce a dog with a genetic problem, but the key is how they deal with it. If they don't test, they may not know until it's too late and they have produced several litters with the problem (which in turn have been bred, exacerbating the problem). How can you breed away from a problem that may not be apparent to the naked eye for several years? Selective breeding is the only way to eliminate genetic diseases in dogs, and genetic testing is the best way to identify a problem.

I never said anything about stray dogs. I said that most dog breeders do not have to use genetic testing to produce healthy dogs. If I want a puppy I will go support a family breeder and go get one out of the local paper. Of course I would still want a healthy dog that would have a nice long life. You also can't turn on the longevity gene. There is no possible way to breed an animal to live longer since you don't whats going to happen to it later on in its life.

A good breeder should know their breeding lines. Thats how things were done before genetic testing was even thought of. And its still how a lot do it today. There are a lot of family breeders (not the so called backyard breeder) that don't do genetic tests that still produce healthy dogs. My neighbor used to breed show, and sell standard and miniature poodles. She never did genetics tests on them. She could tell you which breedings produce bad tempered dogs, genetic defects, ect, and really knew her stuff. She also did profit off them somewhat. The puppies she produced were very healthy. The parents were both AKC, and UKC registered. She only went to one or two shows a year. There are countless others around my county producing healthy dogs that do not show.

The majority of the time you can NOT tell if a dog is hip or elbow dysplastic, or if it has certain forms of cataracts or heart defects by looking at it.

People get very lucky all the time. I prefer to KNOW what I am working with beforehand!

 

[Cloverleaf Farm]

Quote:
I'm glad you added in the "be prepared for c-sections" part...I do not know a single REPUTABLE breeder that makes money breeding small dogs...99.9% of the emergency c-sections we do at my clinic are small breed dogs. ETA: an emergency c-section around here will run you around $1000 (payable at time of service).

PLEASE research, research, research what all goes into breeding dogs first, find a GOOD vet (ie, not a CHEAP vet) that will discuss everything with you before you go purchasing breeding dogs. If you don't do it the RIGHT way, you aren't doing yourself, the dogs, or the breed any favors.