breeding/Fertility Question

[BREKEN]

I just bought a Cemani hen. I have a rooster I am going to put her with.

She was with another rooster of another breed and has been laying.

How long after she is with my Cremani rooster would you say I am getting pure Cremani eggs and no longer anything from the previous bird.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

At least 3 weeks.

 

[BREKEN]

At least 3 weeks.

thank you

 

[3riverschick]

How long after she is with my Cremani rooster would you say I am getting pure Cremani eggs and no longer anything from the previous bird.


I thought 2-3 weels too until I read William White Broomhead's "Poultry For The Many" (1939 edition) over at HathiTrust Digital Library. Judge Broomhead was an internationally renowned poultry breeder and became President of the British Poultry Club. He also edited at least one of the editions of the Club's Standards books. In his "Poultry For the Many" book he addresses the subject.
Here's the URL .

Poultry For The Many
William White Broomhead,
1939, seventeenth edition
Page 72
Fertilisation of Eggs
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=wu.89042002105;view=1up;seq=7
Best,
Karen

 

[3riverschick]

Hi,
Well not everyone has time to go surfing thru libraries, (a particular passion of mine)
so here's the quote from page 72.This particluar book is just chock full of wisdom and
advice written in everyday language. It also neat it is a 1939 edtion. I think the
1st edition was somewhere around 1912. That speaks a lot to its popularity and content.
Distilled knowledge and readable too, a great combination. BTW, there is all kinds of
good information on crossbreeding and different kinds of sex-linked breeding with examples.

"The Fertilisation of Eggs.—There occurs the question of col-
lecting the eggs. How soon after the male has been introduced will
the eggs be fertile? If the hens are in lay the eggs can be relied
on about a week after mating, although if the birds are on the
point of laying, the first egg will probably be fertilised.
Another problem difficult to solve by novices is whether eggs
are fertilised day by day, or at one time. This question arises
if the male in the breeding pen fails in his duties and another has
to be substituted—how long will it be ere the second male leaves
his impressions?
Some authorities state that eggs are fertilised day by day, and
that those laid directly after the introduction of the second male
will contain his germs. Others, however, affirm that more often
than not the majority of the ova attached to the ovary at the time
of the coitus are fertilised—which, however, is impossible.
The question is one that requires a wealth of detail to be
answered, hence it cannot be dealt with in this book. These facts
may be stated: The length of the oviduct in an adult fowl seldom
accommodates more than six eggs at one time.
The oviduct is disconnected with the ovary except during
ovulation; hence the male elements must of necessity fertilise the
female contribution or ovum in the oviduct and not in the ovary.
Therefore, since the oviduct can accommodate six eggs, and of the
six one might be equipped with a shell, we are bound to arrive at
the conclusion that five eggs are likely to be fertilised at once.
If, however, a fully shelled egg is occupying the cloacal pouch
of the oviduct when copulation takes place, the spermatozoa usually
fails to gain access to the oviduct, and thus might be wasted.
When changing the male, therefore, let at least a week elapse ere
keeping eggs as from the second mating."

 

[3riverschick]

Bibliography of works by William White Broomhead,
viewable in full text and keyword searchable at HathiTrust Digital Library.
https://tinyurl.com/gsrtdqc

The Poultry club standards, containing a complete description of all the recognised varieties of fowls, ducks, geese and turkeys,
ed. by William W. Broomhead. by Broomhead, William White. Published 1886

Poultry for the many.
by Broomhead, William White. Published 1939

The management of chickens for all purposes. A handbook for beginners.
by Broomhead, William White, 1875- Published 1910 Catalog

The Light Sussex.
by Broomhead, William White, 1875- Published 1921

Poultry and profit.
by Broomhead, William White, 1875- Published 1910

Poultry and profit,
by William W. Broomhead. by Broomhead, William White, 1875- Published 1911

Poultry and profit,
by Broomhead, William White, 1875- Published 1919

Egg production on the intensive system
by Broomhead, William W. (William White), 1875- Published 1919

 

[Ridgerunner]

Whether 1912 or 1939, isn’t it amazing how much we’ve learned since then? And with today’s media we can have a pretty clear graphic picture of what’s going on. I think this video really helps us understand much about what goes in with an egg inside a hen.

How an egg is made utube

For example, the oviduct does not contain six egg at one time. It takes about a day for an egg to make its way through the oviduct. If there were 6 eggs in there, the hen would lay 6 eggs in one day. The egg can only be fertilized in the first few minutes of its journey after it’s started its journey, so only one egg is fertilized at a time since there are not six in there.

Something else not mentioned there, but the heat inside a hen’s body causes an egg to start developing right after it is fertilized. That’s what causes the bull’s eye, the development of the embryo. If an egg were fertilized six days before it was laid, it would have six days of development when it was laid. Obviously that’s not the case.

I really enjoy reading history and geography books from that time frame too. Those old books are just fascinating to me. But I would not plan a travel agenda today based on that knowledge.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

How long after she is with my Cremani rooster would you say I am getting pure Cremani eggs and no longer anything from the previous bird.


I thought 2-3 weels too until I read William White Broomhead's "Poultry For The Many" (1939 edition) over at HathiTrust Digital Library. Judge Broomhead was an internationally renowned poultry breeder and became President of the British Poultry Club. He also edited at least one of the editions of the Club's Standards books. In his "Poultry For the Many" book he addresses the subject.
Here's the URL .

Poultry For The Many
William White Broomhead,
1939, seventeenth edition
Page 72
Fertilisation of Eggs
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=wu.89042002105;view=1up;seq=7
Best,
Karen

Unless I misunderstood the OP, the question wasn't how long it takes for a hen to produce fertile eggs after being bred. The question was how long will it take for the eggs to be fertilized only by the new male. The hen had previously been bred by a different breed rooster.
After mating, the semen is deposited in the sperm storage sites in the vagina. When the next egg is laid, some of the sperm is forced out and it makes its way up the oviduct to the infundibulum where there are more sperm storage sites. The next ovum released is fertilized in the first 15 minutes in the infundibulum. However, it takes as long as 3 weeks or more to be assured the previous rooster's sperm will be spent.

If a hen is with a rooster for the first time, it depends on how often she lays but usually by the 3rd egg they may be fertile.

 

[Gray Farms]

I just bought a Cemani hen. I have a rooster I am going to put her with.

She was with another rooster of another breed and has been laying.

How long after she is with my Cremani rooster would you say I am getting pure Cremani eggs and no longer anything from the previous bird.

3-4 weeks

 

[BREKEN]

Hi,
Well not everyone has time to go surfing thru libraries, (a particular passion of mine)
so here's the quote from page 72.This particluar book is just chock full of wisdom and
advice written in everyday language. It also neat it is a 1939 edtion. I think the
1st edition was somewhere around 1912. That speaks a lot to its popularity and content.
Distilled knowledge and readable too, a great combination. BTW, there is all kinds of
good information on crossbreeding and different kinds of sex-linked breeding with examples.

"The Fertilisation of Eggs.—There occurs the question of col-
lecting the eggs. How soon after the male has been introduced will
the eggs be fertile? If the hens are in lay the eggs can be relied
on about a week after mating, although if the birds are on the
point of laying, the first egg will probably be fertilised.
Another problem difficult to solve by novices is whether eggs
are fertilised day by day, or at one time. This question arises
if the male in the breeding pen fails in his duties and another has
to be substituted—how long will it be ere the second male leaves
his impressions?
Some authorities state that eggs are fertilised day by day, and
that those laid directly after the introduction of the second male
will contain his germs. Others, however, affirm that more often
than not the majority of the ova attached to the ovary at the time
of the coitus are fertilised—which, however, is impossible.
The question is one that requires a wealth of detail to be
answered, hence it cannot be dealt with in this book. These facts
may be stated: The length of the oviduct in an adult fowl seldom
accommodates more than six eggs at one time.
The oviduct is disconnected with the ovary except during
ovulation; hence the male elements must of necessity fertilise the
female contribution or ovum in the oviduct and not in the ovary.
Therefore, since the oviduct can accommodate six eggs, and of the
six one might be equipped with a shell, we are bound to arrive at
the conclusion that five eggs are likely to be fertilised at once.
If, however, a fully shelled egg is occupying the cloacal pouch
of the oviduct when copulation takes place, the spermatozoa usually
fails to gain access to the oviduct, and thus might be wasted.
When changing the male, therefore, let at least a week elapse ere
keeping eggs as from the second mating."

this is very interesting thank you very much