Breeding for Disease Resistance?

[donrae]

I just have to ask.....why did you bring that rooster home?

I would have said thank you very much, pulled him out of the carrier and placed him in her arms, got in my van and left. I've done it before, when birds I was intending to purchase just weren't up to expectations for whatever reason. Don't ever, ever feel obligated to complete a purchase just because it's a rare breed or your drove so far or the person is desperate to find a new home or the price is terrific, etc.

 

[Mrs. K]

Just read the tail end of this post. So may be off topic, however, I don't think one wants to breed so much for disease resistance as for the ability to thrive. We have been cattle ranchers for a long time. Over the years, it is amazing how animals exposed to the same environment, same feed, and same water can produce or grow at such different rates. Over the years, our herd has gotten more even, more healthy and a better match for our environment.

There are cattle that are much more prone to getting lice. Animals in poor condition, tend to get it more easily. I am not saying that all animals that get lice are poor doers, but poor doers tend to get it more easily. I think you could say that for most disease. Animals not thriving in their environment, are more likely to pick up other diseases.

So I don't think one should expose birds to disease, and wait to see what happens, but rather raise healthy birds in good conditions, and then pick the best doers out of that.

Mrs K

 

[shortgrass]

Also, of course, the new rooster has lice, just like all my hens/pullets.  I'm seriously considering just throwing him in the coop with the others and letting all their germs mingle until they find some kind of equilibrium...  I know that they could catch a disease from him but if I'm trying to build up resistance, isn't that what I want?

Oh, that poor rooster is already headed for lonesome town lol

I would hold off on the rooster, too... Maybe permanently

If it were me facing the same situation, I would politely deliver the roo back to where he came from, and back away, slowly.

Then I'd order 2 cockerel chicks and brood them seperate from your flock. You can research what exact breed you want to work with, and it will give you time to figure out what's going on with your hens and the cocci or mg or all of it at once... Whew it could be overwhelming!

I understand completely about being antsy to start making more chicks, but they'll do the best and have the best shot at beating whatever they're exposed to when they're healthy, like Mrs K was pointing out. Their environment should be easier to adapt to that way. They'll have better immunity just from being healthy stock to begin with. Rushing into it before you have all your "ducks in a row", so to speak will only yield more sick chicks and more losses.


I'd be interested to know if there are chicken breeds that are more resistant to some if these pathogens. I've noticed over time that certain breeds fare better here than others. Not just as far as cold tolerance etc, but they just never seem to be sick or unhealthy looking... Like my BRs, they're tough, and I haven't ever lost a BR to anything other than dinner. Hamburgs, I discovered, are more delicate and seem to get sick easy around here, so I nixed them from my program and tried a different breed. It's going to be trial and error but the nice thing is that chicken generations grow so fast that you can see good results in a year or two. Patience is a virtue when it comes to preparing for what we hope will be a lifelong hobby or production line

 

[casportpony]

I don't mean to be rude, but this sort of behavior of bringing home ill birds is quite likely to lead to a flock *full* of diseases... Pretty soon one can have more or more of the many respiratory diseases, Marek's, lymphoid leukosis, and so many more.

-Kathy

 

[shortgrass]

I couldn't stand it anymore, the curiosity was killing me lol...

I found some articles
Coooool

https://www.ucdavis.edu/one-health/breeding-disease-resistant-chickens


http://thebackyardchickenfarmer.com/heritage-chicken-breeds/

This is a lot like horticulture, with the heritage breeds being the go to breeds for disease resistance.

@mirandalola, what breeds had you decided to start with? Can I inquire as to the breed of the rooster that's in question?

 

[centrarchid]

Yes, heritage breed as we come full circle. The effort will be long-term over multiple chicken generations. I am doing such now and requires a lot of invest in terms money and time. Neighbors with similar interest needed.

 

[mirandalola]

I couldn't stand it anymore, the curiosity was killing me lol...

I found some articles

Coooool

https://www.ucdavis.edu/one-health/breeding-disease-resistant-chickens


http://thebackyardchickenfarmer.com/heritage-chicken-breeds/

This is a lot like horticulture, with the heritage breeds being the go to breeds for disease resistance.

@mirandalola , what breeds had you decided to start with? Can I inquire as to the breed of the rooster that's in question?

I found some awesome articles this morning, too. Mostly scholarly articles concerned with genomic mapping, but many with mentions of "In a backyard flock, this would be accomplished thus..." Some say to not medicate and breed from survivors of disease, but others say to breed from those that were obviously exposed to the disease but never showed symptoms. This second approach is what I've been doing, and it is absolutely not possible if my flock is never exposed to disease! I found one article that even listed the diseases for which there is genetic variation among chickens, that some will catch and others will be resistant: https://sydney.edu.au/vetscience/apss/documents/2003/APSS2003-nicholas-pp42-49.pdf

@shortgrass: I started with a brooder of a dozen australorp chicks and one barred plymouth rock chick. Of that origin, I have 2 australorps and that barred rock remaining.
I was gifted a black copper maran rooster; he got sick pretty quickly and I acquired the skill of butchering a full-grown chicken
I bought 8 full-grown hens: 4 australorps, 2 barred rocks, and 2 buff orpingtons. Of those, I have 1 australorp, 1 barred rock, and those two orpingtons are next in line for the butcher block.

SO, I lost 100% of my marans (but sample size was too small to be significant), 81% of my australorps, 33% of my barred rocks, and 100% of my orpingtons.

This new rooster is half barred rock (mother) and half buff orpington (father). He is what I think is called "silver barred"; on the front he's mostly white but on his hind end he's mostly barred. He is considerably bigger than the barred rock hen I have.

 

[shortgrass]

Wow! The Australorps got hit hard

That was a little experent in itself. Aren't Rocks a heritage breed?

We had BRs when I was little, and they're what I had before discovering the big world of BYC and all the fancy schmancy new breeds that I'd never heard of. Lol I asked my mom what breeds the hens were when I was little and she said "striped ones like yours and red ones". Thanks mom, very helpful. Asked what they had when she was little, and she said " red ones".

Ha, the girls and I were watching some old episodes of "little house on the prarie" and there were chickens running around, some BRs and...red ones. What was that, 1975?

So, red ones... RIR I'm assuming.


Anyway, sorry slightly sidetracked there


I've never had a BR get sick. But then again I don't have near the pathogens here that you do there evidently.

I had an idea, unconventional and I'll probably get reamed for it, but what if you took that original BR, and put her with the rooster to get hatching eggs with? You'd be risking losing the hen, and probably not be able to put her back with the flock, but she'd be the best breeder out if the flock, IMO.

Forgive my ignorance on chicken pathogens, but do any of these pass through eggs? On eggs, in them, whatever?

Edit* got sidetracked by the kids and forgot what I was thinking about... The old heritage breeds we had when I was little. They never got sick either. We didn't know anything about fowl pox or coccidiosis or anything, really. My mom didn't even realize that hens don't need a rooster to lay eggs (wow mom ha-ha!) Butvut brought up an interesting discussion on which one would we pick? Then hen that had been exposed with no symptoms or the hen that got sick and beat it. The votes were about 50/50. I still think there are too many variables but think the best breeders are ones that got exposed but never got sick. It reminds me of the BRs. I know they're getting exposed but they don't seem to ever be sick. Around here, anyway.

 

[lazy gardener]

We had BRs when I was little, and they're what I had before discovering the big world of BYC and all the fancy schmancy new breeds that I'd never heard of. Lol I asked my mom what breeds the hens were when I was little and she said "striped ones like yours and red ones". Thanks mom, very helpful. Asked what they had when she was little, and she said " red ones".

Forgive my ignorance on chicken pathogens, but do any of these pass through eggs? On eggs, in them, whatever?

Edit* got sidetracked by the kids and forgot what I was thinking about... The old heritage breeds we had when I was little. They never got sick either. We didn't know anything about fowl pox or coccidiosis or anything, really. My mom didn't even realize that hens don't need a rooster to lay eggs

(wow mom ha-ha!) Butvut brought up an interesting discussion on which one would we pick? Then hen that had been exposed with no symptoms or the hen that got sick and beat it. The votes were about 50/50. I still think there are too many variables but think the best breeders are ones that got exposed but never got sick. It reminds me of the BRs. I know they're getting exposed but they don't seem to ever be sick. Around here, anyway.

Last summer hubby and I were talking with an older fellow at a transportation museum. (fascinating place!) I always ask retirees what they did for work. He ran a poultry farm. Well, of course, that got the ?'s tumbling out of my mouth. First ?: What kind of birds did you raise? His answer, "Layers." What breed? His answer, "White ones." I asked half a dozen more questions trying to tease out what kind of birds they were. Guessing some sort of hybrid. But, here's a guy who made a living raising thousands of chickens at a time, and he had no idea what kind of birds were populating his barns. Even then, 40 or more years ago, the poultry industry was driven by big ag. I believe he was raising them from hatch to POL. Chicks delivered to the farmer. Feed delivered to the farmer. Medication delivered to the farmer. Written protocol for their care. Fed, medicated, dead carcasses removed daily. Then the whole lot are crated up and carted off to a caged laying facility. Rinse and repeat. And the farmer never even knew what kind of bird he was raising. He said that instead of killing the accidental roos, (as big ag protocol demanded) he kept a grow out pen for them, as well as a pen for injured pullets. He'd remove the roos and injured birds to that grow out pens, and never had issue with fighting or cannibalism in the grow out pens.

I believe these diseases are carried in the eggs. This is why many hatcheries test positive.

Given that many hatcheries test + for these diseases, I'm wondering if breeding forward with both of the hens in your scenario would help to breed a resistant flock.

 

[centrarchid]

@mirandalola

Check out these guys. They are taking heritage breed restoration / selection very seriously and have similar objectives to what you have.


Current projects - Black Java
https://livestockconservancy.org/index.php/what/internal/current-projects


Past projects - Ohio Buckeye
https://livestockconservancy.org/index.php/what/internal/past-projects

You will have to fish around site and their publications to find accounts concerning their approach. They actually do what you are contemplating and take you way past the "I have read stage" of information gathering.