Breeding for meat qualities in a sustainable dual purpose breed

[TimG]

I'm curious about how many chickens I will need in each line. I suppose that more is generally better, but fewer is easier (and cheaper). Somewhere in between must be a good practical number.

So, suppose I decide that I want to breed New Hampshires for meat production. How big a flock do I need in order to expect reasonable progress in increasing the size of my birds and to keep enough diversity in the flock to maintain good health (vigor)?

Is it enough start with a few dozen chicks and select from those a rooster and 8-10 hens to be kept for line breeding? Or, is that far too small a number for an effective breeding program?

 

[AHappychick]

I didnt read the whole thread but did anyone say light brahmas? of all my birds they got the biggest the fastest. Maybe a hampshire brahma cross?

 

[TimG]

Quote:
I found this at the Oklahoma State poultry site: "The relatively slow rate of growth and long time required to reach maturity have caused Brahmas to be passed by as a commercial fowl." It was the slow rate of growth that led me to not seriously consider the Brahma. (That, and I'm not a fan of feathered legs!)

 

[AHappychick]

oh well I guess maybe it was because mine were bramah mixes that grew so fast, I only have one pure Brahma pullet and a mix that I think is RIR and light brahma her offspring grow really fast I swear lol I was breeding her to a EE RIR mix

 

[pocopoyo]

Quote:
I found this article a while ago while searching the internet. Unfortunately, I have not been able to find it again so I can't give proper credit to the source. I think you will find it interesting.



Coefficient of Inbreeding

Many of the outstanding exhibition strains of poultry have been developed using variations of inbreeding followed by line breeding. This has resulted in outstanding exhibition birds but often the strains suffer from poor vitality, vigor and productivity.

So how do we develop a strain that has the outstanding traits that we desire without suffering from inbreeding depression?

The key to avoiding inbreeding depression in a strain is to keep enough birds in your breeding pens so that the probability of mating close relatives is reduced. It is especially critical to maintain enough males in your breeding program.

The coefficient of inbreeding can be determined by using the following formula. (1/8M + 1/8F = In/Gen). Where M is the number of males and F is the number of females. Mating full brother to full sister results in a coefficient of inbreeding of 0.25 where 25% of the genes of the parents are shared by all of the offspring. The coefficient of inbreeding is used to determine how many generations it would take with your current number of breeders before you would reach an Inbreeding Coefficient equal to a full brother to full sister mating.

Some Examples:
# of Males # of Females # of Generations to reach 0.25 co-efficient
1 2 1
1 6 2
1 12 2
2 4 3
2 12 3
4 8 5
4 12 6
6 12 8
6 18 9
8 12 10
8 24 12
12 36 18

As you can see, the number of males used in your program greatly increases the number of generations it takes before you reach a critical inbreeding coefficient. If you keep 8 or more males, you basically can maintain your strain indefinitely without going outside your strain for new blood.

 

[TimG]

I don't doubt you. There seems to be a lot of conflicting information out there. As I mentioned in my opening post, I found these two descriptions of New Hampshires: “competitive and aggressive” and “friendly and placid”. It's really hard to know what to believe without any first hand experience. I'm glad for your input and would now be more inclined to add Brahma blood into one of the lines if I needed an infusion for size, or at least to do more research before dismissing the idea.

 

[TimG]

In another thread someone said "No, they cant be true <insert breed> if the bloodline has been mixed with any other breed."

That's not true in the chicken world, is it? Say I have a line of Delawares that need improvement in a specific characteristic. Couldn't I use a rooster of a different breed, say a New Hampshire Red with good body shape, to improve the characteristic and then through careful selection have this line revert to all Delaware characteristics and have a Delaware for show purposes?

I understand that this isn't simple, but a Delaware doesn't have to be 100% Delaware blood, does it? There's really no way to know whether a Delaware is 100% Delaware blood, anyway. All breeds essentially came from other breeds in the first place, the Delaware coming from two different breeds less than 100 years ago.

To take this further, the New Hampshire Red reportedly was developed from Rhode Island Reds with no other breed involved. If a New Hampshire Red actually had one great-great grandparent that was a Rhode Island Red, there would be absolutely no way to tell, would there? And, there isn't really a need to be able to tell since in the show ring all that matters is conformity to standard, not percentage blood. Right?

 

[pipermark]

I am surprised no one mention Faverellos, salmon my favorite. These were originally breed to be a meat bird, specifically to produce a large quantity of breast meat. I believe, could be wrong, the breast meat of the Faverello was specifically called for in a dish that was created for some French King.

They have a pea or rose comb I believe so they should do well in cold weather.

 

[zephyrcreek]

This is a great thread!! Lot's of information that I have been thinking about also.

I have recently found two different farms that are selecting Delawares for meat production. One was listed in the Backyard Poultry articles mentioned earlier (ready for market in 12 weeks) also S&G Poultry in Alabama. I have ordered some colored rangers from them, and am thinking about adding some Delawares on the next order to add to my current Delaware flock.

 

[TimG]

Quote:
Whitmore Farm (mentioned as a Delaware source in the article) is sold out for 2009.