Breeding for PERSONALITY. AKA Hello SWEET ROO!

[AmericanMom]

Andalusian Blue Rooster attack humans foot:

See, to me that's so frustrating, why needle an animal, no matter how funny one thinks it is..

Sure is a pretty bird tho

 

[GhettoRoo]

Andalusian Blue Rooster attack humans foot:

Hear andalusians have this ``problem`` or instict. Which we need to make good while he grows from chick foot.
P.S, very bueatiful bird and good charestic bird, Im hoping to get one next year.

 

[Sydney Acres]

Quote:
I have to agree here. That was not an attack. That was a beautiful young rooster of a high-spirited breed that was pushed into an EXTREMELY minor skirmish. It was a predicted behavior that was clearly done for the camera. He only started flogging when the shoe was put in his face. No Andalusian Rooster is going to accept that!! It's like holding your fist up to someone's chin and daring them to punch you. He only bit the dog after he was worked up and the dog was in the way, and it was just a minor grab, not a full-on bite. It's very common on farms for small terrier-like dogs (which perfectly describes a Miniature Schnauzer) and roosters to spar and wrestle throughout the day, with neither ever getting hurt. They're often best friends. Clearly the dog wasn't scared of the rooster, as it was nudging and mouthing it before the rooster bite. This rooster isn't appropriate to be around a human toddler, but very few Mediterranean breeds are.

 

[lazy gardener]

Only reinforcing aggressive behavior. Did you also note that when he was aggitated by the boot, he also struck out at the little dog?

 

[chickengeorgeto]

Pro:
1) We would like to try breeding our backyard flocks in an attempt to get roosters who are not a danger to humans. We believe we can do it if we try.
2) We are not expecting to get lap roosters, or feathered tribbles.
3) We understand that it will take time, and that we will need to use careful recording techniques, and breeding pens to do this right.
4) We also understand that we will need to pay attention to any aggressive behavior in the potential breeding hens.

Con:
1) Aggressive roosters are needed to keep flocks safe from predators.
2) Selective breeding and culling are essentially the same thing. And in order to achieve our goal we would need to do constant and very deep culling.
3) We would need to have many pens, and a burdensome level of record keeping.
4) The characteristics of a gentle rooster will revert back to the mean in very few generations.

Did I get that right?

I won't say that you can't make limited gains towards your goal in one human lifetime but from my own positive and negative breeding experience that is all one can expect.

The modern laying hen progressed from 40 eggs per year to over 300 eggs per year in less than 100 years. That much improvement in chicken personalities is unlikely in just a few short generations, especially if you only chose to breed to or cull the male line for the desired trait. To create true and lasting change in any animal species requires breeding - in-breeding - outbreeding - and line-breeding to first find, intensify, fix, and finally set specific inheritable traits. That requires more than a little dedication. Roosters become what we call aggressive but in truth I think that roos see it as dominance, or a continuance of the pecking order to include humans. I will predict that you'll have better luck breeding a klutz rooster who is physically unable to mount and carry out a successful attack than you will be breeding the rooster out of a line of mature male chickens.

I do not predict that the roosters will revert to kind as much as I predict that the goals you seek will remain elusive. The ultimate test will come when roosters hatched by others from your eggs exhibit the same lack of dominance as you have tried to create in your home flock. In other words what actions are nature or natural and what actions or behaviors are nurture and are therefor the result of human husbandry or the lack there of. Good luck in your quest.

 

[enola]

It will not take a human lifetime to see results. I have already proven in one generation that taking the aggressive hens out of the breeding pen resulted in an entire generation of cockerels having the same personality as their sire.

 

[GhettoRoo]

One question George. Do you have any thing positive to add to our project? It will not take a human lifetime to see results. I have already proven in one generation that taking the aggressive hens out of the breeding pen resulted in an entire generation of cockerels having the same personality as their sire.

I thought so too. Mby genes can come to 3th generation from grandfathers/mothers same as for humans, when ur son aint have ur behaviors but sons son have. But after 3th generation they 99% can be different.

 

[Sydney Acres]

Quick question....the rooster I just wrote about also still has his spurs, they are still growing in to be exact. Do I need to remove them or trim them? He's not aggressive and I would rather avoid unnecessary body part removal, but if it's an "injury waiting to happen" is that something I need to look into?

No, you do not need to remove his spurs. You can keep them trimmed. If a rooster is aggressive or if there is concern about breeding injuries (which can be very serious), you can cap the spurs quite easily.

I have numerous roosters of several breeds, but one is a huge, seriously mean Croad Langshan. (This is not normally an aggressive breed -- this rooster is not typical in many ways, and is only kept because he was inherited from my father-in-law, and my husband can't bring himself to have me slaughter him.) He was so mean when he was 3-4 years old that he ran at me one day, flew up and impaled his 3" long, finger-width spur up to the hilt in my inner thigh. It was long enough, and buried deep enough at a downward angle, that he was hanging upside down from my leg and couldn't pull it out himself. If it hadn't been for all the blood running down my leg, and the concern for immediate first aid, antibiotics, and antiinflammatories, I would have killed him right there, husband's blessing or not. But my main priority was to be sure that he hadn't punctured any large vessels, so I painfully pulled him out of my flesh, threw him as far away from me as possible, put pressure on the wound and limped into the house. All ended well except a strange little scar that my OBGYN always asks about. But I decided that I was done with spurs!!

I considered removing his spurs, but didn't want to if there was any alternative. I thought that if a product like SoftPaws exists for cat's toenails, that I must be able to find something that could be used as a softish but durable cap for a rooster spur. I finally found thread protectors. They are tough but flexible vinyl caps that are meant to cover the exposed threads of bolts, and come in every length and width needed. Here is a link to one company that sells them so you can see a picture (http://www.stockcap.com/store/long-caps.html), but I've gotten mine at True Value Hardware Store, and at Ace Hardware Store. I've not seen them at Lowes or Home Depot. They usually cost less than 50 cents each, and I usually buy a variety of sizes to be sure that I get a good fit. You will also need a small tube of super glue, a few paper towels, some latex or vinyl gloves, a heavy duty dog nail trimmer that is very sharp (ideally the "scissor" style, not the "guillotine" style), some styptic powder, a good quality nail file or a fine dremmel grinder (ideally, but you can skip this if you want), a table or counter, and an assistant who isn't scared of the bird. Sometimes a small towel to wrap them in is also helpful, depending on the skill of your assistant.

Depending on the skill of your assistant, the cooperation of the bird, and your preference, you can either do this with the bird standing on the table/counter, or with the bird being held on it's side. Using the dog nail trimmers, trim the spur back as short as possible without it bleeding, typically up to 2/3 of its length, depending on the age of the bird, the breed, and how long it's been since it was last trimmed (on a young cockerel where the spur is still growing, you may not need to trim any length at all). If you're not sure where the bleeding will start, just trim off a small amount to start and keep going until you notice a slight difference in the center. If you cut far enough that it starts to bleed, apply some styptic powder and hold it tightly on the area until the bleeding stops. If you've just cut a few mm too short, it should stop in a few seconds. If you've cut it way too short, it could take a long time and lots of styptic powder, so try not to be too aggressive. (The bleeding has to be stopped and the spur has to be dry for the glue to stick properly.) It's basically just like cutting a dog's toe nails, except that it's directly attached to the shank bone, so it will cause some pressure and a little discomfort if the trimmers aren't really sharp and the cut isn't at the right angle. Now that the point is blunt, you can use the file or dremmel to round out the edges if you want, but it's not necessary. Then find the size of thread protector that will fit snugly on the end of the spur for at least 1/2 inch of length, although 3/4 inch is probably better, with the tip of the spur firmly planted deep in the bottom of the protector. For tapered spurs, you may have to cut some of the length off a narrower thread protector and push it inside a slightly wider protector to create a sort of internal tapering to match the shape of the spur. Be sure that you have the right size for a good fit, then take it off. Put your latex or vinyl gloves on (this step is important -- if you skip it you could end up glued to the rooster with the only way to detach being to remove skin), then put some superglue inside the protector cap. Do not smear the glue on the spur and then push the cap on. Put the glue in the bottom of the cap. Put enough in so that when you push the cap over the spur the glue will rise up to the end of the cap, but not so much that it will spill over everything. Then push the cap over the spur, put a bit of paper towel near the opening to catch any glue that might spill out, and hold the cap on tight for 30-90 seconds (depends on the brand of glue -- read the directions to get an idea). (Note: if the bird is positioned on his side, put the cap on the spur that is pointing down. If you have to turn the cap upside down to put it on the spur that is pointing up, the glue will run out of the cap and get everywhere, which is a very bad situation.) When you try to remove your hand there might be a little bit of paper towel or glove glued to the bird. That's ok, it will eventually come off. Just tear as much as you can off so what remains is only a tiny piece that won't scare the bird. If you leave a little glove behind on the first spur, use fresh gloves without holes in them for the second spur. Really, this is an important detail. There's some hilarious stories out there about people gluing themselves to things and being stuck for hours to days, but it wouldn't be fun for the rooster!

With practice, you can do this quite quickly and without hurting or frightening the bird. An aggressive bird can then flog you without causing injury (they get really confused when you don't react, and somewhat insulted when you laugh), and a sweet bird can breed a hen without accidentally impaling her if he slips around on her back. The vinyl cap is durable enough to last, but soft enough to prevent injury. They will eventually fall off. I've had them last as short as 2 months and as long as 14 months. The more tapered the spur is the quicker it seems to fall off, but mine average about 4-6 months once I figured out how to glue them properly. Since I trim and file smooth all my rooster's nails every few months (as a favor to the hens), I have included this as part of their routine pedicure.

 

[Sydney Acres]

One question George. Do you have any thing positive to add to our project? It will not take a human lifetime to see results. I have already proven in one generation that taking the aggressive hens out of the breeding pen resulted in an entire generation of cockerels having the same personality as their sire.

One thing to consider Enola -- George has gamecocks as his avatar. Their behavior is quite different than most dual purpose breeds. Accomplishing this project on a gamecock type bird might be near impossible, whereas it is much easier on most of the dp breeds.

 

[enola]

I can't see his avatar, since I am on my phone. I can't understand why he is so bent on arguing that as a group we can not achieve what we set out to do. Game cocks have nothing to do with what we are attempting. We are breeding DP type birds for eggs and meat for the table. And for what it is worth, I also have mature game roosters. I have never been flogged by a single one of them. I have never even been threatened by one of them.