BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[southernmomma]

I have been planting shade and sun lawn mixes in the areas of the woods, hoping something witll take as I push out the ferns. I see lots of baby bluebery bushes too, and on the borders between wide open and wood the shrubs are starting, many are stump sprouts fromt he birches, ( sheep liek to eat the elaves) and the wild raspberries of course move in.

THe native grassesa re estremely tough and I cannot harvest with my hands like the lawn grasses; a scissor is necessary. BUt as I think about their value perhaps it is that they are less palatable and will stay to hold the soil if ever an area happens to get over grazed.

Saw the wild hen this morning-- fenced out by the 3 foot mesh fence to deter the coyote. I would think she would know to fly over it. doh. I'm sure she will figure it out be cause she is onthe coyote trail . . .

Found an abandoned nest in the woods . . hollowed out and only 1 egg.

We planted cultivated berry bushes on Saturday-- only 5, a start. We had burned brush on that spot a few years ago; a high and dry area, and the wild raspberreis have moved in, so figured it might be a good area for cultivated stock, which I have planted many times but cannot get to grow. Praying third times the charm.

We still have so many trees to remove, that I was brain storming alternatives. BOth DH and my mother hing it should work: cut downt he trees, pile the brush, and plant winter squash to vine over the piles. Obviously never done this before, so it will be an experiement. BOught about 30 varieties of winter squash to try out.

It will work. I do this on a small suburban scale with cucumbers. You want a natural trellising but not too dense or the fruit/veg won't be accessible. You might have the added benefit of a bomb shelter for the aerial predation. Cool idea

Since you mention fencing~ what is the general consensus on height? All are welcome to chime in. I'm of the mind that higher is better and I wish game fencing didn't cost a fortune, lol, but is there a height that just becomes wasted money? It's more about deterring foxes, coyotes than keeping chickens in.

M

 

[Arielle]

In VT Sugar MTn Farm uses electric fencing to keep out predators and keep in the hogs. ANd watch dogs as well.

Ihave horse fencing because . . . I have horses, and I like the "boing" factor when young horses slam into a fence and need some give to prevent injuries. Youngsters sometimes forget how much breakng distance they need, lol.

THe 3 foot is a deterent-- not perfect, have seen signs of night time visitors but definitely cut down on the losses during the day. AND all birds are put in to a secure coop at night.

 

[neopolitancrazy]

[quote name="southernmomma" url="/t/845018/breeding-for-production-eggs-and-or-meat/1040#post_

Since you mention fencing~ what is the general consensus on height?  All are welcome to chime in.  I'm of the mind that higher is better and I wish game fencing didn't cost a fortune, lol, but is there a height that just becomes wasted money?  It's more about deterring foxes, coyotes than keeping chickens in.

M
[/

Foxes will climb a woven wire fence like a cat, and a coyote would, too, if properly motivated. In general, an area will have either foxes or coyotes, not both. Everything can/will dig under your fence. If you want to "deter" foxes/coyotes/wild dogs, get a Livestock Guardian Dog. If you want to keep the chickens in, put a roof of some sort over the run, and dig the wire sides deep into the earth, with a wide horizontal flap or skirt of wire extending along the bottom of the ditch you had to dig to bury the wire sides. I favor Great Pyrenees dogs. Some people have success with electrified fencing. In my experience, if a predator was hungry enough, it would brave the electrical shock to get dinner.
Just my two cents worth.
Angela

 

[southernmomma]

In VT Sugar MTn Farm uses electric fencing to keep out predators and keep in the hogs. ANd watch dogs as well.

Ihave horse fencing because . . . I have horses, and I like the "boing" factor when young horses slam into a fence and need some give to prevent injuries. Youngsters sometimes forget how much breakng distance they need, lol.

THe 3 foot is a deterent-- not perfect, have seen signs of night time visitors but definitely cut down on the losses during the day. AND all birds are put in to a secure coop at night.

Yes, they'll be cooped at night of course. I wonder how affective having an angled top is~ just thinking out loud here. It would stop them from getting a paw-hold to the top of a fence. Same with latilla but I'm certainly not constructing a latilla fence for all of that acreage!! lol, I'd never be done!

I shy away from anything electrified as we have little ones to contend with.

...

I've seen both. It's a large parcel of land that is bordered by two other very large parcels of land. There's several hundred acres that are basically just woodland; perhaps it's enough to support both and our land is in the middle of the respective territory? This is all new to me, I'm frustrated with my lack of working knowledge.
Exclusively cooping/run the birds is probably the only truly safe option but I'd rather not have chickens than do that honestly. Just not how I want to do things

They will have a coop/run for night and the odd bad weather day but I expect to day range them, initially on 1ish acre of pasture/woodlot.
We do have dogs that may keep things kosher during the day....one of them used to run with the coy's before we took him in so he's not exactly my fail-safe but probably better than nothing. When they sing at night he cries to be let go, makes me a little sad actually, like I'm denying him his fate.
I think you're right about a predator being hungry enough to risk pain~ at some point nothing will stop determination. My focus is to mitigate daytime losses. I've seen fences with the "skirt". Thank you for the reminder of that.

We'll be fencing 1-3 acres at a time dependent on success.

I won't derail the thread any longer....I suspect there are a kabillion hits if I take the time to google this

M

 

[southernmomma]

Well.........consider me schooled. Sounds like the kiddos and pooches will just have to learn not to touch mama's special fence. Wish I'd read those couple of pages on electric fences before pondering aloud

M

 

[gjensen]

I like both, a good strong fence, with a couple strands of electric wire.

If the birds are heavy dual purpose birds, a 4' fence will keep the birds in. A strand of hot wire at about 6" will deter a digger, and another within 6" of the top will deter climbers.

Without hot wire, the only thing you are keeping out is large canines. Fox, raccoon, weasels, opossum etc. do not respect fences. Hawks, of course do not respect fences.

Fencing without hot wire is more about keeping the birds in, than keeping predators out. Safer because they are not wandering to where they would be more vulnerable.

I like the electric poultry netting, but I do not think it lasts long enough for the money. It's advantage is the mobility alone.

 

[southernmomma]

I like both, a good strong fence, with a couple strands of electric wire.

If the birds are heavy dual purpose birds, a 4' fence will keep the birds in. A strand of hot wire at about 6" will deter a digger, and another within 6" of the top will deter climbers.

Without hot wire, the only thing you are keeping out is large canines. Fox, raccoon, weasels, opossum etc. do not respect fences. Hawks, of course do not respect fences.

Fencing without hot wire is more about keeping the birds in, than keeping predators out. Safer because they are not wandering to where they would be more vulnerable.

I like the electric poultry netting, but I do not think it lasts long enough for the money. It's advantage is the mobility alone.

Right. My new understanding of hot wires hasn't changed wanting an actual fence, just opened up the possibilities and lowered the cost
Thanks you three, Arielle, Angela, G, for the perfect input!

Cheers!
M

 

[Turk Raphael]

I like both, a good strong fence, with a couple strands of electric wire.

If the birds are heavy dual purpose birds, a 4' fence will keep the birds in. A strand of hot wire at about 6" will deter a digger, and another within 6" of the top will deter climbers.

Without hot wire, the only thing you are keeping out is large canines. Fox, raccoon, weasels, opossum etc. do not respect fences. Hawks, of course do not respect fences.

Fencing without hot wire is more about keeping the birds in, than keeping predators out. Safer because they are not wandering to where they would be more vulnerable.

I like the electric poultry netting, but I do not think it lasts long enough for the money. It's advantage is the mobility alone.

I agree with your assessment of fencing. Just off from the barn and chicken house, there is a rough pasture (about 20 acres) that's fenced with 5 strands of high tinsel electric, with a high powered charger. That will be fine for the goats when they arrive and should keep most of the predators at bay but the chickens would go where they please. We do have a little over three acres fenced with 4 foot Premier electric poultry netting with a solar back up charger.

Grandma had two big old surly dogs that kept everything away from her chickens but we have none. Those of you that keep livestock guardians...what breeds do you recommend?

I got the the brooder pretty finished today...big enough for the chicks if they were to show up tomorrow. No matter if they come tomorrow or the nest day, it will be twice the size it is now...like everything else, we run right up to the deadline...We've just been so covered up with painting the interior of the house we are selling ...just barely treading water. I'll try to post some pics tomorrow.

Turk

 

[southernmomma]

@Arielle Thanks for the Sugar Mtn blog tip. This is one of the first things I read and thought it was so interesting I thought I'd share for everyone to consider.

Concerning their layer flock:
In the winter we feed our poultry primarily meat – something we have – since the deep snows make other foods inaccessible. In the warm months they eat insects (their primary job), grubs, worms, break apart manure patties and eat plants (grass, clover, etc). I don’t have a number for you on birds per acre since we don’t operate that way. We have had as many as 400 layers in a flock fanning out about 500 to 700 feet from their central roosting spot. Some also sleep in trees. If you used a 500′ diameter circle it would come to 20 acres for 400 birds or about 20 birds per acre. Hmm… that does not sound right as I do not think they were ranging across that much space. So much for back of the napkin scratchings. The area they cover is not perfectly circular. Based on what I know of our field sizes I would say that they were ranging over more like seven to ten acres so about 40 birds per acre. That’s about 1,000 sq-ft per bird over the warm months and is sustainable with them co-grazing with other animals. Take that with a grain of salt or two. It will vary with your climate, soil, etc, etc.

Perhaps numbers and info not news to many of you but I thought it interesting and of note that this is a successful laying flock subsisting mainly on forage and what sounds to be copious amount of meat. Thought it might generate some conversation.

M

 

[ameeks]

Grandma had two big old surly dogs that kept everything away from her chickens but we have none.  Those of you that keep livestock guardians...what breeds do you recommend?

Turk
[/quote]

I never have to worry about anything getting my chickens with this big guy around He's 2 1/2 and never saw a chicken until he was 2 ( did grow up horses and 5 little kids around though). He went after a hen the first time we brought them out and the scolding he got was enough. Now he just lays down and watches everything. If someone gets out in the field too far he jumps up and herds them all back to where he wants them. I believe German Sheperds are the best dogs out there.