BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[abbevilleoz]

From a breeder out east that I literally stumbled across online. I contacted her last year to see if she was still breeding, but she said her kids gave up poultry breeding so she did to. :/

I'm just at the curiosity stage right now but seems like I read the show lines provide a better base for at least meat production. Is that pretty much true?

 

[lpatelski]

I'm just at the curiosity stage right now but seems like I read the show lines provide a better base for at least meat production. Is that pretty much true?

True and False. Show lines have the super frame with muscle. For people who do not care about fertility, how long it takes for the bird to get to the optimal size, or how economical they get there, they have meat production of sorts. A true production bird must get to the size you want it, without issue, as economically as possible.

So yes, the show birds will put you on the right track for body type. Not all, but some have sacrificed fertility and are slow to grow and mature.
At some point if you want to raise 100+ birds per year, you must add fertility. This is why a true dual purpose bird is still in production and not a reality.

Anytime you intensify and select for less than every trait, you loose ground on the line. Show birds are all about what is winning. Pretty feathers? Try selecting an inferior bird with pretty feathers just once...

 

[Beekissed]

Quote: I'd have to disagree with that last statement....the true dual purpose breed does exist and it exists in the Plymouth White Rock, which has exceptional meat quality with a fine and dense meat fiber and huge breasts, lays on meat very well and also lays very well, with a great fertility rate, not to mention an excellent feed conversion. Before there were ever CX birds being raised commercially, there was the PWR, from whence a lot of the genetics of the CX have been borrowed. It's been said that 95% of the world's table birds have been derived from WR females.

That's one reason I marvel at all the efforts to create a dual purpose breed for meat and eggs going on all the time when the WR has been perfected for quite some time, so no need to reinvent the wheel unless one just likes to fiddle around with a hobby.

No, you won't get a bird for the table super fast like you do with the CX, but why in the world does anyone want to speed these things up all the time? The HUGE amounts fed to the CX to get them on the table is WAY more feed than one will feed to a WR in the comparative times it takes to grow each bird out, so the feed conversion isn't better, it's just quicker.

Quote: A hardy bird even in cold weather, it is also docile, tame, and active. Both cocks and hens have an upright carriage and are graceful, stylish birds. The hens are broody and good mothers. The hen will also lay light brown eggs year round. The bird itself has a long, broad body with a moderately deep breast. The yellow-skinned Rock matures early into a broiler at 8 to 12 weeks of age. Cocks weigh up to 9.5 pounds and hens up to 7.5 pounds.

 

[bnjrob]

I'd have to disagree with that last statement....the true dual purpose breed does exist and it exists in the Plymouth White Rock, which has exceptional meat quality with a fine and dense meat fiber and huge breasts, lays on meat very well and also lays very well, with a great fertility rate, not to mention an excellent feed conversion. Before there were ever CX birds being raised commercially, there was the PWR, from whence a lot of the genetics of the CX have been borrowed. It's been said that 95% of the world's table birds have been derived from WR females.

That's one reason I marvel at all the efforts to create a dual purpose breed for meat and eggs going on all the time when the WR has been perfected for quite some time, so no need to reinvent the wheel unless one just likes to fiddle around with a hobby.

No, you won't get a bird for the table super fast like you do with the CX, but why in the world does anyone want to speed these things up all the time? The HUGE amounts fed to the CX to get them on the table is WAY more feed than one will feed to a WR in the comparative times it takes to grow each bird out, so the feed conversion isn't better, it's just quicker.

I also think there is another aspect to this. The fact that most dual purpose birds were *created* long ago. Before people had a fast-food, super-size-it mentality and had much different expectations from their utility birds than what the birds' creators had.

 

[ocap]

I have enjoyed thinking about the Frank Reese birds and his meat business

http://standardbreedpoultry.com/breeder/Frankreese/415

http://www.reeseturkeys.com/Products.htm

 

[Beekissed]

I also think there is another aspect to this. The fact that most dual purpose birds were *created* long ago. Before people had a fast-food, super-size-it mentality and had much different expectations from their utility birds than what the birds' creators had.

I agree, the expectations are greater but I think it's of detriment to the birds in a lot of ways. That constant striving to produce a bigger, quicker maturing meat bird doesn't allow for any considerations to their long term health nor their ability to reproduce normally and maintain fertility.

I think most of the breeders back in that day knew when to quit and that's a valuable gift when it comes to developing the genetics of living creatures. It was important then to actually be able to reproduce reliable and consistent standards in a particular breed and that the breed be hardy and balanced in all ways~good feathering, good health, good fertility, good size and shape, and the ability to pass along those same traits.

All I see people focused on nowadays is "how much do they weigh by such and such an age?"

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

I have enjoyed thinking about the Frank Reese birds and his meat business

http://standardbreedpoultry.com/breeder/Frankreese/415

http://www.reeseturkeys.com/Products.htm

Four, 3-4 lb barred rocks for $135 plus $36 shipping

I almost fainted. Seriously, people are buying????????

 

[DesertChic]

I agree, the expectations are greater but I think it's of detriment to the birds in a lot of ways. That constant striving to produce a bigger, quicker maturing meat bird doesn't allow for any considerations to their long term health nor their ability to reproduce normally and maintain fertility.

I think most of the breeders back in that day knew when to quit and that's a valuable gift when it comes to developing the genetics of living creatures. It was important then to actually be able to reproduce reliable and consistent standards in a particular breed and that the breed be hardy and balanced in all ways~good feathering, good health, good fertility, good size and shape, and the ability to pass along those same traits.

All I see people focused on nowadays is "how much do they weigh by such and such an age?"

As always you make some OUTSTANDING points and give me a lot to contemplate. I wish I had the advantage of knowing one of those "breeders back in the day" so I could reap the benefits of their hard-earned wisdom, but people like me who have had to start from the beginning and pretty much alone must also go through the growing pains. But I do thank you and others on here for sharing your knowledge and (hopefully) improving my learning curve. I'm hoping that I'm on the path of creating consistently good birds.

 

[DesertChic]

Four, 3-4 lb barred rocks for $135 plus $36 shipping

I almost fainted. Seriously, people are buying????????

Good birds cost a lot. The last poultry show I went to, a breeder had 3 gorgeous Australorp hens + 1 Australorp rooster for $150 and there was a bidding war.

 

[DesertChic]

I'm just at the curiosity stage right now but seems like I read the show lines provide a better base for at least meat production. Is that pretty much true?

I'm really glad you asked this, because I didn't have a good response myself, and the responses you received have been very educational.