BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[CanadianBuckeye]

Have a big day ahead of me, freezer camp day at my house. I have to do it alone and have 10 boys to do. I have some fully feathered out of Nn pretty sure I'll skin those

Ten? Ouch.

One at a time is all I can stomach. Good luck!

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

Has anyone noticed whether cockerels change much once they are older than six months? I have four Buckeye/Cornish to choose from, I'd like to cull down to two as breeding roosters at some point the sooner the better but it can wait. One is definitely smaller than the others, the other three are similar. One has a long back, which I think is a good thing because I'm interested in good egg production as well. One is quite bulky, Cornish-like and impressive, he's my number one choice at six months but is it possible he will end up too big? I'm after more of a dual purpose bird than purely meat. There were heart problems in the Cornish line so that's a concern. Any thoughts? To my unpractised eye they are all pretty similar- maybe a bit more or less breast, maybe a bit longer or shorter in the back but when I pick them up to me they all feel pretty much the same.

My understanding that for a dual purpose breed, as opposed to purely a meat bird, I should be looking for a longer back, a longer keel, some width between the pelvic bones, and the most abdominal capacity and a good wide back - anything else? But to me, the differences between the cockerels feels negligible. AArgghh!!!!

 

[bnjrob]

Have a big day ahead of me, freezer camp day at my house. I have to do it alone and have 10 boys to do. I have some fully feathered out of Nn pretty sure I'll skin those

My back is hurting for you.

 

[bnjrob]

Has anyone noticed whether cockerels change much once they are older than six months? I have four Buckeye/Cornish to choose from, I'd like to cull down to two as breeding roosters at some point the sooner the better but it can wait. One is definitely smaller than the others, the other three are similar. One has a long back, which I think is a good thing because I'm interested in good egg production as well. One is quite bulky, Cornish-like and impressive, he's my number one choice at six months but is it possible he will end up too big? I'm after more of a dual purpose bird than purely meat. There were heart problems in the Cornish line so that's a concern. Any thoughts? To my unpractised eye they are all pretty similar- maybe a bit more or less breast, maybe a bit longer or shorter in the back but when I pick them up to me they all feel pretty much the same.

My understanding that for a dual purpose breed, as opposed to purely a meat bird, I should be looking for a longer back, a longer keel, some width between the pelvic bones, and the most abdominal capacity and a good wide back - anything else? But to me, the differences between the cockerels feels negligible. AArgghh!!!!

Depends on the breed. Our Javas can continue to change even after 1 year old. Which can be frustrating. I've never had a bird get *too big* though. I have had smaller cockerels wind up getting larger than their brothers, who were initially the bigger birds at an earlier age. Ended up switching breeders because I decided we needed the overall larger sized bird, even though his brother got bigger at an earlier age. By the time the two boys were almost 2 years old, the slow starter was significantly larger than the other.

You may want to look at the breast as well. Our birds have a specific body type that they need to meet for their SOP, which includes a shape that gives a decent breast (for the breed) on them. That is one advantage of my breed, in that their SOP is meant for them to have good utility as well. Since you are doing crosses, you don't have an SOP body type to meet, but you may decide you'd like to also have a decent breast. You can have a long keel length but still not have a great breast - you will be looking more at the birds profile and feeling the breast to see how his breast shapes out.

If you are not seeing many differences between the cockerels, that could mean a few things. You may need to hatch out more to get a larger number of birds to see a difference. Or it could be that their parents have been selected (by breeder choice or natural selection) so there is already so much uniformity among the parents that the offspring are not showing as much diversity. Each year that we select breeder birds, we see an increase in uniformity among the offspring and it makes it more difficult to choose breeders. The first few years, there were obvious stand-outs but these days it is more difficult. What I wind up doing is taking my top 1 to 3 picks that I've saved from a hatch and put them side by side to evaluate. They get weighed, they get their hands-on exam. Then they are put in their areas that I've made from plastic *wire* (looks like chicken wire or 1 inch square mesh), and I observe them from the top, the profile. Let them walk around in their areas while I observe from all angles and I write down pros and cons that I see with everything from physical traits to personality traits. Sometimes I will take photos of them, then take them back to the computer and compare them. I will turn the photos to black and white so that I am concentrating on the form of the bird and not the color of the bird or the surroundings. It can be quite difficult sometimes and you always worry about culling a good bird.

 

[Turk Raphael]

Has anyone noticed whether cockerels change much once they are older than six months? I have four Buckeye/Cornish to choose from, I'd like to cull down to two as breeding roosters at some point the sooner the better but it can wait. One is definitely smaller than the others, the other three are similar. One has a long back, which I think is a good thing because I'm interested in good egg production as well. One is quite bulky, Cornish-like and impressive, he's my number one choice at six months but is it possible he will end up too big? I'm after more of a dual purpose bird than purely meat. There were heart problems in the Cornish line so that's a concern. Any thoughts? To my unpractised eye they are all pretty similar- maybe a bit more or less breast, maybe a bit longer or shorter in the back but when I pick them up to me they all feel pretty much the same.

My understanding that for a dual purpose breed, as opposed to purely a meat bird, I should be looking for a longer back, a longer keel, some width between the pelvic bones, and the most abdominal capacity and a good wide back - anything else? But to me, the differences between the cockerels feels negligible. AArgghh!!!!

May I make a suggestion? If I had the birds you have, already crossbred, (not inditing you, its our family tradition) I'd get a few good dark rose combed Leghorns for egg production.

EDIT: Sorry...I was distracted... I meant to have the Leghorns to be covered by the cock of your choice. I suspect the choice of heavy laying strain of Leghorns would be a plus.

A little mixing and matching over two or three generations might give you acceptable results.

 

[Kassaundra]

My back and feet are killing me, but I got 8 done. I could have got all 10 done, but 5 were feather necked!!! Every time I process feathered necked birds I can't believe how much harder and more obnoxious they are to do

. And you ladies that skin, all I can say is you are more woman then me!!

I scalded one of my feather necked boys that are from Nn birds to see if they had the hair like someone earlier asked, and mine did, for a minute I thought my chickens and rabbits crossed

 

[DesertChic]

My back and feet are killing me, but I got 8 done. I could have got all 10 done, but 5 were feather necked!!! Every time I process feathered necked birds I can't believe how much harder and more obnoxious they are to do

. And you ladies that skin, all I can say is you are more woman then me!!

I scalded one of my feather necked boys that are from Nn birds to see if they had the hair like someone earlier asked, and mine did, for a minute I thought my chickens and rabbits crossed

Wow! Even doing 8 in one day is beyond impressive to me. My limit is 3, and that's really pushing it. You're Wonder Woman!

 

[Kassaundra]

I thought this was interesting. All the testes except the center set are from sub adult roos w/I a week old of each other, all having secondary roo characteristics (big red comb, hackle and saddle feathers). The center set was from a full adult roo head of his group.

 

[Turk Raphael]

My Dom. cockerels are 3.5 weeks old today (counting hatch day) and I intend to attempt to caponize 2 or 3 of them tomorrow. I generally wait 'til they are about 5 or 6 weeks and while not especially easy, I have a pretty good success rate. My first attempt might work out or it could be tragic but it will be a learning experience. I know many folks can do them successfully at the lower age.

These birds are surprisingly hardy and if anyone cares, I only paid $54 bucks for they lot, all charges included and that's for 15 birds but they sent 19. other times, I followed the prescribed temperature suggestions and ended up cleaning lots of pasty butts. Generally having 1 or as many 5 succumb to some illness. So, I cracked the top window in my hatch house and had small window fan running, 24/7. I started the temp at 80* F and dropped it to 75* F at 12 days of age. In this case, NO pasty butts and they are eating like fiends and growing at remarkable rates. I think it will be difficult to pick which 5 I intend to keep intact by the time I leave for Porto Alegre but It's going to be a crap-shoot, even if I waited 'til I get back.

 

[CanadianBuckeye]

May I make a suggestion? If I had the birds you have, already crossbred, (not inditing you, its our family tradition) I'd get a few good dark rose combed Leghorns for egg production.

EDIT: Sorry...I was distracted... I meant to have the Leghorns to be covered by the cock of your choice. I suspect the choice of heavy laying strain of Leghorns would be a plus.

A little mixing and matching over two or three generations might give you acceptable results.

I'm a bit leery crossing with Leghorns, I think it will set my meat production back a few generations. But I will if I have to. There's probably plenty of leghorn in my Hatchery breeds anyway