BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[southernmomma]

Since the topic seems to be crosses, are there historic crosses of note that could be listed? I'm only aware of a few~ Deleware/ New Hampshire, Australorp/ Leghorn, Dorking/ Indian Game,
Blue Andalusian/ Langshan. Anyone?

M

 

[Turk Raphael]

Here are some:

The yellow ones at hatch.



The Flock they became.

Now I know what I saw! I watched a movie this morning on NetFlix and a guy in Tangier had a bird that looked EXACTLY like this fella, as a pet and he was sitting on the back of a luxurious dining room chair while the guy fed him some sort of pastry with a fork. Really beautiful birds.

Spain can be seen from points in Morocco so it would stand to reason.

 

[ronott1]

So yours did not come from Canada?

The EO Basque in the pictures I posted did not come from Canada.

@Meg2000000 has them in Antioch California.

 

[bnjrob]

I agree with you in theory. I think that you know what my main interest is.

I also understand that people like to create and experiment. That is in our nature, and how we have what we have. That is how I started in this hobby. 20 years ago chickens were not online or the latest fad. I started by experimenting with feed store chicks. I think there can be a natural evolution of sorts. There was for me. At a point, the challenge of breeding the complete package appealed to me.

My original interest was production and it is still a very big part of how I see things.

Two things came together for me, and made a big impression. One was a batch of feed store production reds. In their second generation, there was one chick that grew faster than the rest, and was lighter in color. This male was far and beyond the others in the rate he feathered out and fleshed out. He was also lighter in color and I liked his color. Mature he was shorter than the others (proportionally), but larger. Also a wider and was a deeper bird. I was familiar with NHs, but not like I am now. He reminded e more of a NH. He was a throwback.
Anyways I used on a couple hens. I did not get any like him, but intermediate between the two. I decided to put him with a few of his daughters, and that is where I saw the progress. My interest in the breed New Hampshire was born. So to speak.
Now today had I posted pictures of my progress to those in the know, they would have criticized what I had done. Even that I learned more about breeding poultry in that experiment, than I have since that time. I learned the fundamentals of inheritance and making real progress. I lost those birds to a pack of wandering dogs. I was probably 24 or 25 then. So 15 years ago.

I started looking for some replacements. It was out of season for the feed store chicks, so I started asking around. I found a farmer that raised Rhode Island Reds. I thought what I was raising was Rhode Island Reds until I saw these. I fell in love with them. I was impressed by their size, and their uniformity across the flock. I did not know such birds existed. The first thing that struck me was how they looked like a picture and that they were shaped like a brick. This was fundamental in me being able to see a breed's type. They were so different than what I had gotten used to, what made them different stuck out to me.
This was an older gentleman, and he saw my interest. He set me up with a small flock. A cockerel, two hens , and four pullets. These birds were not just attractive, but they were good layers. I loved their big rich brown eggs. They were larger eggs than what I was getting.
Anyways, it came time to move. I would not be set up for chickens, so I gave them away. When I was ready I went back to get a new start. The man that I gave them to did not have them anymore, and the older gentleman was not around anymore. This taught me how easy it was to loose things like this.

I still had that NH like bird in my head so I decided was going to find a good line of NHs. I spent five years looking for something that I wanted. I had no idea how rare the breed had become. I tried the hatcheries, and was not impressed. Most were just light colored red layers. They were not NHs. I tried Cackle Hatchery's NHs and they were a little closer. I would say that they were NHs, but they were light in weight and were rather shallow birds. I was getting closer though.
Then I started looking on the internet. I found some that were better than I had been seeing, and gave the a try. The quality was poor, but I was getting closer. I raised them for a few years, but I kept looking. I stumbled across Kathy, and she had just got some birds from someone that got them from someone. She told me that I could find some pictures here, and that is how I ended up here. Four generations of NHs later, they are still the best that I know of. They are lacking in certain areas, from what I came to understand about NHs, but better than any alternative I have been able to find. I spent around five years trying and looking for New Hampshires before then. They were not available. It took an import from Germany to change that. One of the best American breeds of all time was disappearing.

So I get it. I came to realize that it was important to hold on to what we have, and try to do something with them. However, I got there by experimenting with feed store chicks.. Some things I picked up on then, I still have with me now. Like looking for the birds to have eyes that fill the socket. That is still a pet peeve of mine. Birds that held their wings well. Pinched birds, etc. I picked up on lot of things that the birds taught me. Not any online mentoring. Heck, I did not even know anyone that bred poultry. Experimenting with feed store chicks taught me a lot.

People new to poultry will be drawn to a variety of things. Whether it be color, or a story. Birds get overhyped. They come and they go. If they enjoy it enough, they will settle into what they like and what they want to do. And they will be all the wiser for having gone through the process. On many levels, I am still new to poultry. Maybe not keeping them, but trying to do what I am doing now.

I understand the creativity part of it and wanting to experiment. Most of the time though, I don't find the creative desire as the reason for someone wanting to experiment with breeding, particularly cross breeding. Usually it is a lack of knowledge - which is the case for most people. Or it's people that don't understand that there is no chicken on the planet that is going to meet their long list of expectations and they are going to have to compromise on their list of requirements for a chicken to meet, or suck it up and pay more money or do more work in order to get to where they want to be with chickens.

 

[ronott1]

Now I know what I saw! I watched a movie this morning on NetFlix and a guy in Tangier had a bird that looked EXACTLY like this fella, as a pet and he was sitting on the back of a luxurious dining room chair while the guy fed him some sort of pastry with a fork. Really beautiful birds.

Spain can be seen from points in Morocco so it would stand to reason.

The EO Basque are very friendly and smart.

The thing about the Basque Pita Pinta is that they were working farm breeds that were saved in the 1980s. They are still a good breed for that kind of thing, which is what this thread is about. The Pita Pintas lay more eggs than the Basque and they have bigger cockerels.

They are both very nice.

 

[LindaB220]

I understand the creativity part of it and wanting to experiment. Most of the time though, I don't find the creative desire as the reason for someone wanting to experiment with breeding, particularly cross breeding. Usually it is a lack of knowledge - which is the case for most people. Or it's people that don't understand that there is no chicken on the planet that is going to meet their long list of expectations and they are going to have to compromise on their list of requirements for a chicken to meet, or suck it up and pay more money or do more work in order to get to where they want to be with chickens.

But the reason I got into chickens was to have fun. I'm retired and just playing. No particular goals or plans. I'm not showing or really selling so why not experiment.

 

[bnjrob]

But the reason I got into chickens was to have fun. I'm retired and just playing. No particular goals or plans. I'm not showing or really selling so why not experiment.

Nothing wrong with experimenting and playing if that is your goal. But that is not usually the goal of people that I run across that want to experiment and crossbreed. Usually they want to crossbreed because they aren't getting what they want out of their chickens (or they don't have chickens yet and want to buy this mythical chicken out there that can do everything), so they think that crossbreeding is going to be the magic answer to what they perceive is a problem.

 

[Turk Raphael]

Nothing wrong with experimenting and playing if that is your goal. But that is not usually the goal of people that I run across that want to experiment and crossbreed. Usually they want to crossbreed because they aren't getting what they want out of their chickens (or they don't have chickens yet and want to buy this mythical chicken out there that can do everything), so they think that crossbreeding is going to be the magic answer to what they perceive is a problem.

Perhaps you have been hanging out on the wrong threads?

ETA: I can not for the life of me, understand why anyone who has a life of their own, worries so much about what someone else does.

Linda is my friend (in fact) and I support any cross she decides to make and don't see that she has to explain herself to anyone.

Yet...she has already attempted to make an explanation that most folks have accepted and moved on.

 

[LindaB220]

Perhaps you have been hanging out on the wrong threads?

ETA: I can not for the life of me, understand why anyone who has a life of their own, worries so much about what someone else does.

Linda is my friend (in fact) and I support any cross she decides to make and don't see that she has to explain herself to anyone.

Yet...she has already attempted to make an explanation that most folks have accepted and moved on.

Well, aren't you a Sweetie. I can get along with a lot of people, but the thing is they have to let me be their friend. There is no right or wrong way to raise chickens. Do what you like and have fun. I will.

 

[gjensen]

Since the topic seems to be crosses, are there historic crosses of note that could be listed? I'm only aware of a few~ Deleware/ New Hampshire, Australorp/ Leghorn, Dorking/ Indian Game,
Blue Andalusian/ Langshan. Anyone?

M

The English liked the Reds over Light Sussex, and they were quite successful with them. Certain table strains were used, and produced males good for the table and productive layers.

Rhode Island Reds over Rhode Island Whites. I used production reds over single combed white utility Rhodes, and I liked the cross.

The NH x Barred Rocks were popular. As was Reds over White Rocks.

A good meat strain of NHs over a heavy Bared Plymouth Rock strain would be a good cross.

I still think that using a commercial sex linked male could be used to great advantage over a heavier bird. Lets say Jeremy's Rocks for example. They are a meat strain. Concerning utility, they are a cost effective way to improve a flock. You can about get the darn things for free. They do not have a lot of flesh on them, but they grow very fast.

It might be worth noting for other than the crosses that emphasized meat, lighter males were often used. It was thought that many of the males lighter in weight made for better sires. In general I don't buy that, but it might have been true for some strains. It is just not that simple.

For people that can maintain two breeds well, these traditional simple crosses can be used to an advantage.