BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[gjensen]

Getting back to chickens, I just wanted to let you know that my Basques and Coronation Sussex are being shipped out today. I have my incubator set up and waiting. One thought that I was having is that both have big breasts and grow big. What if I mixed them to have hybrid vigor. Keeping separate pens to keep purity. Thoughts?

I do not know these birds especially well, but a few thoughts. Mostly off of impressions, so prove me wrong. I like to learn about different breeds and different strains.

These are also opinions.

I expect the Coronation will not be the meat birds that they appear to be. Looks like a lot of pretty feathers to me. I suspect that they will eventually get to a decent size and weight. I would like to know how much the cockerels weighed at 16 and 20 wks, and see a carcass. Sussex should be a good table bird. More of roaster, fattened up for Sunday dinner. So to speak. Their type in the SOP indicates this. They have a cinder block shape, with a slight slope to the back. The carcass should lay flat and squarely on a plate to illustrate. The Coronation that I have seen do not have the length, width, depth, or substance to be a good table bird.

I am not putting this choice down. Please do not take it that way. That is where a lot of our breeds and varieties are. The best we can do is locate birds that have potential, and breed them accordingly. It takes a real effort, and numbers to select from, to get them where they could be.

I think the Basque have good potential as general purpose farm birds. I would not call them "meat" birds, but there is enough flesh there to call them dual purpose birds. Birds where you eat the extra cockerels from your replacement flock, and stew the spent hens. That is what dual purpose is really.

I think crossing them, you will indeed get some hybrid vigor. I personally not cross to the Sussex for table birds, unless I located a strain that had that kind of potential. But of course they would still be edible and have good flavor.

 

[LindaB220]

I do not know these birds especially well, but a few thoughts. Mostly off of impressions, so prove me wrong. I like to learn about different breeds and different strains.

These are also opinions.

I expect the Coronation will not be the meat birds that they appear to be. Looks like a lot of pretty feathers to me. I suspect that they will eventually get to a decent size and weight. I would like to know how much the cockerels weighed at 16 and 20 wks, and see a carcass. Sussex should be a good table bird. More of roaster, fattened up for Sunday dinner. So to speak. Their type in the SOP indicates this. They have a cinder block shape, with a slight slope to the back. The carcass should lay flat and squarely on a plate to illustrate. The Coronation that I have seen do not have the length, width, depth, or substance to be a good table bird.

I am not putting this choice down. Please do not take it that way. That is where a lot of our breeds and varieties are. The best we can do is locate birds that have potential, and breed them accordingly. It takes a real effort, and numbers to select from, to get them where they could be.

I think the Basque have good potential as general purpose farm birds. I would not call them "meat" birds, but there is enough flesh there to call them dual purpose birds. Birds where you eat the extra cockerels from your replacement flock, and stew the spent hens. That is what dual purpose is really.

I think crossing them, you will indeed get some hybrid vigor. I personally not cross to the Sussex for table birds, unless I located a strain that had that kind of potential. But of course they would still be edible and have good flavor.

The reason I thought to mix them was I wanted the taste of the Sussex. They are not small like the Speckled and want to try the roasters of both the basque and sussex. Just beginning so I will be trying different things. But I'm partial to Basque because of the great reviews on the OE Basque thread. Some of the people just loved raising them but could not generate enough interest (I guess) to continue to market. I just want for my table.

 

[ronott1]

The reason I thought to mix them was I wanted the taste of the Sussex. They are not small like the Speckled and want to try the roasters of both the basque and sussex. Just beginning so I will be trying different things. But I'm partial to Basque because of the great reviews on the OE Basque thread. Some of the people just loved raising them but could not generate enough interest (I guess) to continue to market. I just want for my table.

I have not eaten a Sussex but can verify that EO Basque are one of the best tasting breeds so far. For a Dual Purpose breed for meat they are fine. The Cockerels get to 3#s dressed at 16 weeks without finishing.

 

[bnjrob]

The reason I thought to mix them was I wanted the taste of the Sussex. They are not small like the Speckled and want to try the roasters of both the basque and sussex. Just beginning so I will be trying different things. But I'm partial to Basque because of the great reviews on the OE Basque thread. Some of the people just loved raising them but could not generate enough interest (I guess) to continue to market. I just want for my table.

Thinking - it seems that cross breeding has been used more to get a particular trait FASTER into birds. Which if money and return on investment is the only goal, then you'd want to do that. Otherwise, you can selectively breed for the same/similar end result, it will just take a little longer than flat out crossing breeds.

Thing is - we already have that done so why bother doing it again? There are already a bunch of mutt chickens for sale through most hatcheries that lay tons of eggs, that can be slaughtered in 2 or 3 months and still weigh a good 3-5 lbs....why bother reinventing the wheel for these kinds of things?

 

[LindaB220]

I have not eaten a Sussex but can verify that EO Basque are one of the best tasting breeds so far. For a Dual Purpose breed for meat they are fine. The Cockerels get to 3#s dressed at 16 weeks without finishing.

Good to know. I had ordered the Coronation sussex before finding out how great the Basque is. I believe I'll concentrate on them.

 

[Turk Raphael]

Getting back to chickens, I just wanted to let you know that my Basques and Coronation Sussex are being shipped out today. I have my incubator set up and waiting. One thought that I was having is that both have big breasts and grow big. What if I mixed them to have hybrid vigor. Keeping separate pens to keep purity. Thoughts?

Linda, I don't see where it would hurt crossing the breeds if you want to do it. Go ahead and experiment if you want to....Just don't ask me or anyone else to help pay your chicken feed bills!

Everyone is entitled to make whatever choices they wish....your chickens, you feed 'em. I know very little about either breed but since you are considering crossing them for your own sense of satisfaction, go ahead and get your thrills..cheap or not so cheap!

 

[LindaB220]

Linda, I don't see where it would hurt crossing the breeds if you want to do it. Go ahead and experiment if you want to....Just don't ask me or anyone else to help pay your chicken feed bills!

Everyone is entitled to make whatever choices they wish....your chickens, you feed 'em. I know very little about either breed but since you are considering crossing them for your own sense of satisfaction, go ahead and get your thrills..cheap or not so cheap!

I ferment my feed so it won't be so incredibly expensive. I'm not doing a lot. Just for my freezer.

 

[gjensen]

The reason I thought to mix them was I wanted the taste of the Sussex. They are not small like the Speckled and want to try the roasters of both the basque and sussex. Just beginning so I will be trying different things. But I'm partial to Basque because of the great reviews on the OE Basque thread. Some of the people just loved raising them but could not generate enough interest (I guess) to continue to market. I just want for my table.

The Sussex was known as an excellent market bird in it's time. It should be able to fill that role for a small farmer today. The problem is finding the right strain to start with. The Sussex that we have seams to be running in two directions. Shallow and narrow Sussex colored birds, or over feathered nicely marked birds. There is no true "utility" Sussex here. Not a reason to give the breed a go, just being realistic about the state they are in. They are not the only ones, and that is the status of many of our breeds. I find myself looking at the pieces and parts and wondering how to put humpty dumpty back together again.

That is why I tend to prefer taking on an accepted pure breed, breeding to the Standard, and emphasizing the merits of utility. I call it beautiful utility. I realize others have different preferences, and the variety of perspectives is good for poultry in general. That is why we have so many breeds to begin with. I do choose, and wish that we would, prioritize working with what we have. Generally speaking, they have more potential anyways.

 

[LindaB220]

The Sussex was known as an excellent market bird in it's time. It should be able to fill that role for a small farmer today. The problem is finding the right strain to start with. The Sussex that we have seams to be running in two directions. Shallow and narrow Sussex colored birds, or over feathered nicely marked birds. There is no true "utility" Sussex here. Not a reason to give the breed a go, just being realistic about the state they are in. They are not the only ones, and that is the status of many of our breeds. I find myself looking at the pieces and parts and wondering how to put humpty dumpty back together again.

That is why I tend to prefer taking on an accepted pure breed, breeding to the Standard, and emphasizing the merits of utility. I call it beautiful utility. I realize others have different preferences, and the variety of perspectives is good for poultry in general. That is why we have so many breeds to begin with. I do choose, and wish that we would, prioritize working with what we have. Generally speaking, they have more potential anyways.

I'm not sure what the shape of the sussex will be. The fellow I'm getting the eggs from in Pa said he bought his stock from a Show breeder. The Basques (he said) came from Greenfire. Of course all Basques came out of Canada. Interesting times right now.

 

[ronott1]

I'm not sure what the shape of the sussex will be. The fellow I'm getting the eggs from in Pa said he bought his stock from a Show breeder. The Basques (he said) came from Greenfire. Of course all Basques came out of Canada. Interesting times right now.

Not all of them. Megan2000 has some from Spain.