BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT.

[seventreesfarm]

Yes. It is gaining some level of control. That is how I see emphasizing superior individuals. As a control.

I am going to do an outcross that I see as necessary. I will not commit to this outcross until I, if I, can get it going into the right direction. I am essentially going to try to build another flock all together. I will have my main line of two families as my control. I am going to do the best I can with them, while I try to get the project line going in the right direction. A lot of times they dictate what we do or do not do. I do not know a lot, but I have learned that they have say in the matter. LOL.

One big issue with olive eggers is that they aren't self-sustaining...yet. So far they require back crossings to keep the blue eggshell and the brown 'paint' where they need to be.

So I'm pretty much trying to maintain decent Marans and decent Ameraucanas for the egg color, and working toward offspring with the conformation I want, while also experimenting with crossing different hybrids to see if I can hit the jackpot with a self-replicating Oliver. It seems like it should be possible, since the shell color and paint color are two different mechanisms. But it does add complexity to the project, as does space limitations.

 

[southernmomma]

Quote:
If you want to see the dichotomy of standard versus hatchery bred birds, google a standard bred Dark Cornish. Completely unattractive~ at least to me. Poor things look like they can hardly walk. I have no idea as to their temperament though.

M
In the discussions I had with kfacres, the birds he has are very mobile, and are not SQ and are not hatchery stock to my knowledge. If they are one or the other , then it is hatchery.

THis was one time I would lean toward hatchery stock and maybe it depends on WHICH hatchery, over SQ stock for production purposes.

There does seem to be a difference in hatcheries~ which makes sense of course, as they are different strains just like every other breeder. It seems that people that go with Dark Cornish often make the partial leap to standard bred and use a standard male over some hatch hens....sometimes not even Cornish hens but another breed they're trying to breed meatier.

Quote: Egg production is important if you want a self sustaining line. I don't expect a super meat producer like the DC to match the RIR, but I do expect a reasonable number of eggs 3 a week. IMO the SQ are no longer good layers because that trait was not kept up or perhaps the lines are too inbred. I just know that Walt LEonard told me they were not good layers.

Keep us posted on the DC. This is another bird I have been interested. Particularly the red laced ones are eye candy. lol

The WLR are very pretty. The hens especially. What I find the most attractive about the hatchery Cornish is the tight, glossy feathers; dark or wlr.
Apparently the hatch DC are darn good layers, like 4-5 eggs/week, brood like queens and go native and live pretty much off of foraging in warm months. Specifically the MM ones.

Quote:
You beat me to it. The Reese DC are amazing looking. I'm aware of only one person in the SE that has some of his birds though. Breeders seem to lay low.
If I was to choose a chicken based on looks alone I would choose the Thai Game. Beautiful. I love the look of tight feathers, legginess and upright stance. Not exactly a working farm bird though, lol...
And since we're entertaining blasphemy~ DC X Black Ameraucana. Think bulky Black Ameraucana with tight feathers that were dark laced.

Quote:
G~ for 75% of the cost do you not get 75% of a return? I'm not being sassy, I'd really like to know.

Turk~ correct me if I'm wrong but is Shumaker also offering a Buckeye X DC? I know I've seen someone breeding them for sale....that might be something to entertain.


M

 

[Turk Raphael]

There does seem to be a difference in hatcheries~ which makes sense of course, as they are different strains just like every other breeder. It seems that people that go with Dark Cornish often make the partial leap to standard bred and use a standard male over some hatch hens....sometimes not even Cornish hens but another breed they're trying to breed meatier.




The WLR are very pretty. The hens especially. What I find the most attractive about the hatchery Cornish is the tight, glossy feathers; dark or wlr.
Apparently the hatch DC are darn good layers, like 4-5 eggs/week, brood like queens and go native and live pretty much off of foraging in warm months. Specifically the MM ones.


You beat me to it. The Reese DC are amazing looking. I'm aware of only one person in the SE that has some of his birds though. Breeders seem to lay low.
If I was to choose a chicken based on looks alone I would choose the Thai Game. Beautiful. I love the look of tight feathers, legginess and upright stance. Not exactly a working farm bird though, lol...
And since we're entertaining blasphemy~ DC X Black Ameraucana. Think bulky Black Ameraucana with tight feathers that were dark laced.


G~ for 75% of the cost do you not get 75% of a return? I'm not being sassy, I'd really like to know.

Turk~ correct me if I'm wrong but is Shumaker also offering a Buckeye X DC? I know I've seen someone breeding them for sale....that might be something to entertain.


M

I honestly don't know. I've heard that a guy in the eastern panhandle of West Virginia (name forgotten) does but I didn't ask Joe and he didn't say. I'm not sure I'd be too interested in them anyhow. I certainly have no problem with hybrids but my life is lived on the run as it is so anything that even slightly complicates matters will be eliminated if possible and certainly not brought in unless there is a very compelling reason. One breed at a time suits our lifestyle, especially since we are going to make a grand effort to pull together a worthy exhibition flock. I just don't want too many varieties floating around, leg bands notwithstanding. For a while, We'll need help selecting the better birds from culls and as I understand it, there will be plenty of culls for the pot and oven.

 

[Blueface]

Turk~ correct me if I'm wrong but is Shumaker also offering a Buckeye X DC? 

Nope, I don't. A well bred buckeye doesn't need anymore Cornish in it....they are very well built by themselves.

 

[southernmomma]

Quote:
Well! I don't know if I should be embarrassed or just laugh~ I didn't realize blueface3 was J. Shumaker...you.

Thanks for answering my backhanded question

M

 

[Blueface]

Well!  I don't know if I should be embarrassed or just laugh~ I didn't realize blueface3 was J. Shumaker...you.

Thanks for answering my backhanded question

M

I'd laugh it's no big deal....you're quite welcome.

 

[southernmomma]

Quote:

 

[gjensen]

There does seem to be a difference in hatcheries~ which makes sense of course, as they are different strains just like every other breeder. It seems that people that go with Dark Cornish often make the partial leap to standard bred and use a standard male over some hatch hens....sometimes not even Cornish hens but another breed they're trying to breed meatier.




The WLR are very pretty. The hens especially. What I find the most attractive about the hatchery Cornish is the tight, glossy feathers; dark or wlr.
Apparently the hatch DC are darn good layers, like 4-5 eggs/week, brood like queens and go native and live pretty much off of foraging in warm months. Specifically the MM ones.


You beat me to it. The Reese DC are amazing looking. I'm aware of only one person in the SE that has some of his birds though. Breeders seem to lay low.
If I was to choose a chicken based on looks alone I would choose the Thai Game. Beautiful. I love the look of tight feathers, legginess and upright stance. Not exactly a working farm bird though, lol...
And since we're entertaining blasphemy~ DC X Black Ameraucana. Think bulky Black Ameraucana with tight feathers that were dark laced.


G~ for 75% of the cost do you not get 75% of a return? I'm not being sassy, I'd really like to know.

Turk~ correct me if I'm wrong but is Shumaker also offering a Buckeye X DC? I know I've seen someone breeding them for sale....that might be something to entertain.


M

I did not take that as Sassy. It is a good point. I was comparing costs to maintain the flock as a whole. That matters. Let's say that you have two kids, and a partner. You eat two dozen eggs per week, and could eat three. You only need 6 good layers to meet that need, but you want the flock to be "self sustaining". Six layers is not deep enough to do it. 12 will carry you "twice" as long. The difference is 3/4 lb. per day, or almost 300 lbs. per year for 12 layers. Still more than enough eggs.


It is just another way to look at it. I am not suggesting the project, really. Just food for thought. The hatchery bantams are already too large. Bantam Cornish x Bantam NHs would be something that someone could do. Less housing, less space, less feed for the flock as a whole, etc. When we have the money to spend on the birds, we see it one way, but if we didn't our priorities would change.

I admire the Thai Game Fowl to. I have long considered picking up a couple pairs. I still do.

 

[southernmomma]

I get it, it makes sense on paper but I wonder if we were to compare 3lbs to 3lbs. 3lbs on a standard bird is stretched out over a large frame where as 3lbs of bantam flesh would be more compactly distributed and therefore of greater quality. At least that's what I assume and of course my interest is meat. For us the eggs are a bonus and the medium for more birds to grow out. But does it take a bantam the same amount of time to get to 3lbs as it would a standard to get to 6lbs? Or are growth rates similar. Perhaps the cost in raising would be almost the same if that was the case.
Of course, if we're just talking eggs for home use then I think bantams are kind of cool.

Just pondering aloud, not really expecting real answers. I did go hunting bantams though as the only pictures I'd seen are of bantam cochins and seramas (no thanks) and I came across this fellow~ tell me that doesn't make a proper meal! Bantam (cuckoo?) Dorking in the UK.

M

which begs the question, at least for me~ how does one make a bantam if they're not a bantam breed? Just use the smaller stock?

 

[LindaB220]

I'm really liking the comments today. Never thought about bantams. Schletcht Hatchery used to have the WRL Bantams, but something got in (dogs?) and destroyed some of their best breeds. The idea of self sustainability is good. I have 14 pullets that will start laying shortly, some in 6 wks and some in 2.5 months. Got to buy a freezer because I have 20 CX coming in to raise and fill it. My incubator is chugging along with 6 Basques and 9 Coronation Sussex. I'm not going to count the 13 SBEL's that went in first. I have my candler coming in shortly and can finally get a look see at how much damage I did the first day with the tremendous heat spike.